Ok so im new to the scene. I hope this doesn't evoke lots of eye rolling and perhaps troll comments, or causes someone to have a cardiac arrest from laughter (if that is possible). With an average player/racer in mind who uses a wheel and can put down good lap times what kind of lap time difference would they expect to get if they (did this for a challenge or their wheel was broke) used a gamepad controller set up best as it can? would they be 3-4 seconds off the pace or much more? Im just interested to know and i'm sure the differences would vary to player to player and those who perhaps has sunken a lot of track time with a gamepad controller. I'm not suggesting a debate about which is better because the wheel would always win. But just curious to know if you had a top driver/player switch to a controller for a day and what the lap differences would actually be. Might make for an interesting video experiment if there isn't already one out there. Or a top player race with one against mid range players on a wheel.
While you have simply much finer and more defined control with a wheel, everything is possible! I have a friend who used to race rF1 with me and he used a gamepad. After much practice and some races he was as fast as me! It´s the same with every controller in the end: practice, practice, practice - then you get fast!
Thanks Peterchen for your reply, you are right practice, practice and more practice. I am still thinking about saving up for a wheel, as i think it might be less concentration intensive compared to a controller, i don't mean it would be dead easy but more precise driving means less mistakes and better feel of the track. My game pad is a cheaper one that does not have rumble at all. The only downside to a wheel i think, will be sitting position to use the pedals effectively and be comfortable.
Ive never tried a gamepad in rF2... but back in the rF1 days, I gave it a go; and I couldnt even manage a lap. With my G27 strapped to the table, pedals duct taped to the floor, and sitting in my crusty, creaky old office chair, I have a damn good time. To each their own of course, but I see no point in even using rFactor/iRacing with anything short of a wheel... what are you "simulating" when there isnt a single vehicle in the real world that is controlled by a gamepad. Well, other than construction vehicles and remote control. If you cant afford a wheel, that is a bummer. If you really can enjoy rF with a gamepad, I give you props, and you should probably be a professional gamer because your hands are like modern DaVinci. XD The biggest loss is with the FFB. Some of these cars, when circulating around a track, feel downright real. The way the steering wheel bumps and pulls as you cross undulations in the track, bounce over kerbs, etc. You just cant get that with a controller, you miss so much of what makes this software absolutely incredible. I would love to do a real test: Take two people who have never driven a car on a track, take them to a track and set them both down in the paddock in front of rFactor for 2 hours of practice. For example we'll say the Spec Miata @ Laguna Seca, its easy enough to get 2 MX5's at Laguna(rental). One with a wheel, the other with a pad. At the end of the session, both go out to the real track and drive the real cars. I would bet any sum of money that the driver that practiced with the wheel would be immediately loads faster, would be more able to anticipate the cars behavior, understand how and when over/understeer will happen and how to counter it and save it. Just my 2 cents, and why I really feel a wheel is necessary to programs like rFactor. Now when it come to Forza, maybe they just need more time, but the wheel feels like crap, and the pad is the only way I am competitive. Cheers
10 years ago i raced a lot in gtr2 using a ps2 controller. And i easily keep running in front and winning races. The Magic is configuration. the options steering rate and speed sensitivity is for players who use gamepad. You just need to find de numbers that fits you.
Sure, but its not really a comparable experience. With a pad, you dont feel the stick beneath your thumb slipping away when the rear end steps out like you do with a wheel. When you cut a perfect corner and ride over the kerbs, the controller might shake, but its nothing like feeling each individual bump that you do with a wheel. And something like F1; theres no way you could snap steer fast enough to save that thing when it steps out at 240kmh, and still be accurate for the rest of the lap. Like I said, to each their own. If you enjoy it, enjoy it. But youre still missing out on a lot that the software has to offer.
The good news is that because you have had no force feedback, and so are relying purely on visual and audio cues, then if you move to a FFB wheel you will (theoretically) be starting from a better place. I have used joypads, Negcons (google it! They are very good), cheap wheels, and expensive (to me) FFB wheels. Joypad to cheap wheel was a much bigger jump than moving up to a FFB wheel. To be honest, once you are 'in the game' you stop worrying about the controller and just drive. I had a thrustmaster ferrari experience (Cheap FFB) and it was plenty good until I started wanting to beat real people. I bought a T300 and I'm still losing. I believe a good driver with a pad will always be quicker than a bad driver with state of the art gear. But Damn it feels good. It always comes down to what it's worth to you.
Just to share my personal experience: I played on and off for 8 years with a controller, never wanted to get fully involved. After a 2/3 years break, I finally tried playing online, found a nice group of people and enjoyed it even if I was at the back… And after 6 months, I decided to buy a wheel! I was slower with the wheel at the beginning! Once you are used to a device, it is completely different with an another one! But I quite quickly improved, and I think I am now (after less than a year with the wheel) much faster than I have ever been with the controller. I improved a lot by learning a better line: this could apply both with a controller or a wheel. I grabbed some time by switching to left foot braking; not possible with a controller this time… Like other mentioned, it is mostly up to you! You can have fun no matter what you choose. Of course, a wheel will be more expensive, will require more room. But you don't need a fancy wheel to be fast! Many started with a rather cheap wheel and made progress from there. It also has to do with how much you want to get involved: if you want to go fast, you'll have to practice! This is true with a controller or a wheel: the more you drive, the more you will learn and will go faster. So you can start with a controller (it is the easiest, you can keep your desk, seat and PC unchanged, just plug a controller). Then maybe consider a wheel if you get really hooked!
As you have seen by now, there is very little in the way of trolling here. Sure, we have our disagreements, and they can occasionally get testy, but for the most part people who drive sims like rF/rF2/AC/iRacing, etc. are serious enough about driving that we'd rather get in some seat-time...and limit our flames to the bright exhaust coming out the pipes.
I got super lucky with my G27, there was a massive sale and I got it for 200$, retail was 300. PCars had just come out and I couldnt find an excuse not to... havent regretted it since. Also, if you enjoy classic racers like the Howstons and Porsches and all, having the 6 speed shifter and all 3 pedals to practice some good ole fashioned heel-toe is an absolute blast!
Don't matter which one you use, if that's all you use and you're dedicated, you'll get faster. For me the question is, do I want to feel like I'm playing a game or a race sim?
I have met someone online who was just as fast with their controllers as I am with a wheel - 2 people, in fact. But I think it takes a lot more practice with a pad to get fast than with a wheel.
Thanks guys for all the posts and views. For now i will stick with the controller as i cant afford even a cheap wheel yet and will see how i go. At the moment still working on fine tuning the controller. I had some initial problems with the controller and the game (apparent in another thread of mine) and will search around for some recommended controller settings, the weird thing is i thought i found a good setup but after sorting out my controller problems it doesn't turn in fast enough where as before it seemed ok. Weird. Or maybe its me lol. If anyone in this thread uses a controller feel free to share your setup in text or screen shot form it would be much appreciated if that isn't too much to ask? I don't want to wear out my welcome. At the moment i have all the assists on, with steering help to low and i think braking low as well, but i see these as trainer wheels but i plan to start setting them lower once i sort my controller settings out for best smooth driving as i can get and slowly work towards turning the driving aids off which will make me a better driver than leaving them on. Is there any good car to start with? that is not dead slow but is a little forgiving to start with?
A few Major tips: Set recent controller sensitivitys to low. Don´t set a deadzone for any! If there is a windows "profiler" or some other sort of related software for controller, look if there are sensitivity values to check there also. Turn steering help off! That´s the reason why car doesn´t turn in like you wish. I would also turn brake help off. You must get used to it without it! Turn TC and ABS on as help. For practicing try a car that doesn´t react that direct (so no F1 or something). I would recommend USF2000. It´s relatively forgiving, not that superdirect, good driveable with default-setup. Please tell me how you assigned the mini-joysticks (Iguess you use them).
Thanks peterchen for your reply. Turning off Steering aid helped a lot. At the moment im practicing on the track Loch Drummond (short) in the BMW Rahal Letterman #90 car. The track is quite twisty with only one straight which i thought would be good for a practice track. Currently my controller settings are; Steering rate: 13% Speed Sensitivity: 85% Steering Sensitivity (at the bottom) 0% and 0% dead zone Braking and Throttle sensitivity is 100% Would you recommend increase the sensitivity for throttle and braking so it will be more progressive? or reduce it. I feel the controller needs more fine tuning, sometimes I get understeer if i come out of the last corner onto the straight too fast. Also i notice i lock up the brakes a little too easily coming into the hairpin and some other tight corners- i dont have an off but i see tire smoke in the mirrors so this would wear tires down like crazy and probably overheat the brakes. So far my best time is 1:05 something. Sadly the game doesn't save best times if you leave the track and return to it (will have to use pen and paper). Nor do i know the best lap time for class of car i have. Surely the game could auto do this based on track conditions and what car you are in? I know i wont be able to get close to the best lap time for a long time, but it would give some sort of yard stick to go by. You wanted to know about mini-joysticks? i presume you mean the twin sticks on the controller? i just have left for steering, the right is for looking behind and left/right. Left trigger for braking, right trigger for throttle. Btw what does speed sensitivity mean? or is it just another way of saying controller sensitivity?
I would recommend to use the right stick for throttle/brake! Shoulder-triggers are not good! Much more feeling with stick! And then reduce sensitivity for throttle and brake also. Speed sensitivity means that steering is less pronounced at higher speeds. That helps also a lot! But if too high you cant turn in hard enough in higher speed corners. I have mine on 20%. I wont go much higher, maybe max 30%. Also reduce steering rate for the car in garage. Helps a lot. You can play with this value until you can turn in properly but is not too nervous.
Not a good idea. You really want throttle and brake to be on separate axis to be able to keep stability under braking, otherwise you will be loosing a lot of time on corner entry and will make your car unstable when off the throttle, specially on cars where you cant play with the differential setup. I agree triggers have a very limited range but they are still way better having them separate than both on the same stick. You need to be able to control throttle under braking. I'm driving now with a PS3 controller (used to drive with a wheel) and the hardest for me has been to avoid locking the front tires during braking, since there is no force feedback. Avoiding spinning under corner exit has been surprisingly easy. Another big problem for me is that I cant tell when the tires are at their optimum slip angle, so I keep over steering them on the corners, increasing tire wear. I have an OK pace on race start, but always fall down the field due to tire wear. So my 2 cents: Increase sensitivity on the steering axis, get comfortable with it and work your way down, same with speed sensitivity. You don't want the sensitivity to high because it is easy to over steer that way. Keep TC off and braking help low. Or at least both low. Lower the engine volume so you can hear what the tires are doing, you will be able to tell when the tires are sliding better that way. Increase the "exaggerate yaw" setting, you will get better visual clues of what the car is doing that way.
Disagree. Works well on 1 axis. OK it is a drawback that you can´t apply throttle under braking, but when you get used to it you can also be very fast with this! Things like autoblip are helping here. It´s absolutely now onder that you lock up tyres when braking with triggers! Not fine enough inputs possible.
It could be a matter of driving styles, but Im struggling to see how that could be as quick. Sure you can compensate for it with practice, but you are still loosing the ability to control the engine braking, which limits how much you can attack a corner during corner entry. I don't really know how you would do that other than controlling the throttle. You have to setup the car to be under steering in corner entry, and attract the corner with a much straighter line, I don't see how more range in the brake pedal can help with that. Plus if he hasn't used a wheel and is learning with a gamepad, it will teach him a bad habit that will be harder to remove once he gets a wheel. My problem is not about having finer inputs, its about lack of feedback.
Well maybe we can meet up someday, then I´ll show you how quick this can be! I don´t think one learns some bad habit by doing this,- when you sit at a wheel everything is different anyways!
