lack of mods? caused by packaging system? Does rf2 not have enough content?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PorscheMR6, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. PorscheMR6

    PorscheMR6 Registered

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    hi,
    i always considered rf2 to be very modder friendly, because there is nothing encrypted like in nfs for instance and because of the tutorials.
    The low number of released mods can be explained by the fact that rf2 is still a beta.
    But there are way to few WIP mods for such a great simulation after 8 months of open beta and therefor way less content(tracks, cars) than AC or GTR3 has announced.

    i see that a lot of modders are still developing for gtl, rf1, gtr2 or have decided to mod for AC or GTR3.
    i found this on simracingstuff.blogspot.de:
    Does he have a point?
    Is the packaging system really that stupid?
    Do you think there are enough WIPs tracks/series?
    Do you think there is enough announced official content*?


    *official content:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. F1lover

    F1lover Registered

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    I personally think its true. ISI have made it more troublesome for modding teams to add content. Plus the fact there are other Sims that
    are farther along than rF2. I like rF2 but the modding setup is truly a pain in the rear. My personal view is that rF2 should not have
    changed the Modding system. If they had not done that, rF2 would have hundreds of tracks and cars by now. The negative side of too many tracks/cars was the mismatch factor.
    I wish ISI all the luck..
     
  3. feels3

    feels3 Member

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    I know few modders that are waiting for GOLD rf2, because rf2 is constantly changing from build to build and it's hard to predict final effect of work.
     
  4. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    I thought ISI was making rf2 easier for modders

    What is this packaging system ?

    New Mods seem to have dried up lately, some good ones should be released once rf2 goes gold but bit frustrating as its unpredictable how long this will be
     
  5. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead Staff Member

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    There is another aspect to consider; rF2 is FAR more complex than rF1 for both car and track development, so I think this title is going to be more oriented on stock contents due the fact now you need much more skills in many areas and you've to work on very detailed informations for both tires and engine, plus stock contents are very nice and enjoyable....

    Imho there is no sense in creating or moving old tech contents into rF2...so I do not see nothing wrong with the lack of contents at this stage of rF2 development.

    Honestly that comment about moving on AC or GTR3 for modding, sounds pretty ridiculous for me, because nobody knows how difficult or friendly will be the modding platform for both those unfinished/unreleased titles but when the technology grow up into sims you can't ask for a old modding platform approach. Everything will be more complex and will require more time and knowledge (and data resources) to make a mod working at the same standard (or similar) of stock full featured contents.

    Of course, if a title offer professional laser scan tracks and licensed cars with proper physics..the modding will be a second choice for most of users, especially for the first period after the final release and many modders will quit just because they do not have the time and the energy/motivation to learn the new standard.

    The packaging system is just the last step of a very long process...
     
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  6. buddhatree

    buddhatree Registered

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    Good post Tuttle! :)
     
  7. Radar

    Radar Registered

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    I don't see the packaging system being that difficult to be honest with you..

    Tuttle, I think you are right where you will need more skills for rF2, so with this I hope we will see much better content and not what it was becoming of late in rF1..
     
  8. Max Angelo

    Max Angelo Registered

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    In the old rF the first addon car (with 3d modeling, not changing the physics of ISI cars) was released at Christmas 2005 (rF was released at the end of August) and the mod had ferociouos critics because some errors in the front/rear weight balance.

    I cant remember the amount of the available addon tracks at Christmas 2005, but leaving out the "experiments" (tracks with pink textures due to bad conversion, no working green lights etc) i think we had no more than 10 of them.

    Christmas 2005 means 4 months after "gold" ... why you do believe rF2 might have hundreds of tracks and cars after 8 months of public testing and with the sim not yet gold? rF required 3 years to get a so vaste collection of addons! :)
     
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  9. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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  10. buddhatree

    buddhatree Registered

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  11. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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    So, the new mod packaging is complex to keep bad modders away? Or its just an happy accident? (few modding teams is just the bright side of complexity of modding system becasue bad modders couln´t handle with complexity and good modding teams don´t like easy work)
    And how about the capacity of regular players to say wich is good or not for then?
     
  12. coops

    coops Banned

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    from whats been said here there are modders with mods ready to go public once the game goes gold . i don't expect it to be straight away as they will need time to finish off bits and pieces but i believe we will have quite a few mods available in probable the first 3 months,this being said the only thing you have to worry about if you are not modding. is when will GOLD be ready? answer: when its ready.
     
  13. martymoose

    martymoose Registered

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    The way I see it its still just an early beta and nothing is final so not much point releasing mods as many things you do today can be broken tomorrow. Many people seem to think that rf2 is actually out already, as Max said it took a while for the mods to come out for rf1 after gold.

    Rf2 will have more mods at gold or not long after it as this beta though its hard to finalise a mod for release gives modders a good head start, at gold they should only need a few finishing touches and first quality mods should start trickling out in the first month.

    I love how many complaints there are about beta bugs in both rf2 and beta mods or tracks yet many of these same people keep begging for more of the same :D
     
  14. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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    still not able to see the relationship between complex modding system meaning better mods (physics, graphics)
    F1sr will do a better job with worse tools they have in rf1?

    The non-ISI mods and tracks already released stopped working with new build?
     
  15. martymoose

    martymoose Registered

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    Rf2 is far more advanced and detailed then rf1 so things will be more complex because of that, even though some dont seem to think so especially compared to the greatest masterpiece in sim history NKP lol. Sorry didnt mean to stir those boys up again but surely if something is so great they wont be here on this forum anyway but rather happily enjoying their chosen sim.

    This means it will take more work to get results at the same level ISI do and then as always many modders will take it up a few more levels from there. From what we have at the moment I see lots of potential in Rf2 once gold, ISI always made products open to modders and this hasnt changed in any way except that they have made a more advanced sim needing a bit more work to produce stuff beyond what was possible in rf1
     
  16. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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    I´m not a modder but i dont think that the (stupid, according to the op) packaging system has nothing to do with rF2 be more advanced and detailed then rF1. Just guessing.

    In fact, i believe that advanced softwares make things easier
     
  17. martymoose

    martymoose Registered

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    The so called stupid packaging system could be the reason why its in beta, this was released to give modders an idea of what to expect along with give suggestions of ways to improve the modding process. If possible im sure ISI will make things easier to work with where they can, they need feedback and suggestions on what can be done better just saying something is rubbish isnt going to help much. The OP quoted one person and each person has their own opinion, they can provide usefull ideas or take their time to learn the new methods. NKP had no mods only a few converted tracks by a handful of people, Asseta Corsa looks promising but whos to say that will be any easier then working with RF2.

    If people were happy with RF1 then they would just mod with that but improvements in the code by ISI will mean some things will be done differently, all other sims are having pretty big upgrades with no betas around to even give anyone an idea of what to expect from them in terms of modding. Someone saying they will abandon RF2 because its too hard and go to another platform they havent even seen is a little silly IMHO.
     
  18. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    It is not packaging system that causes that there are not lot of mods right away, sure it is bit of pain, but not as much pain as it will be when we have ton of mods and you need 10GB downloads to join single race event because of different versions and demands for different mods to be install for that server track cycle etc.

    Maybe people find a way to make it so that not that much content downloads are needed.

    Reasons why there are no lot of mods are for example completely new tire model, what guys knew from old is useless now, people need to learn tires from zero again, major time consumer.

    For graphics, there are also changes, learning how to get best out of rF2 engine and knowing that next build may require to figure out it all over again, surely has some impact.

    For some mods graphic guys are too few, for some mods desire to make physics as perfect as they can make takes lot of time too, researching stuff etc.

    There is also new engine model, which is not known much about, everyone needs to learn how to translate real world engine with new parameters to realistic rF2 engine.

    Of course mods could be made quickly, but how many of you guys really would like from another Kantti mod made in 12 hours? Majority wants picture perfect bling graphics, then few wants nice to drive cars, there are couple that want perfectly realistic physics over anything, then there are some that want it all, but nobody wants simple graphics with bit arcade like physics, which would be fastest to make.

    My offer still stands, anyone making Donald Duck's 313 can be sure I will work out physics for it, with enough many working on that it should be quite fast to make to some fun level, but so far nobody has step forward. I can only do physics stuff and even with that I still learn lot daily, but making physics for such is not really big task as there are so much more freedom, there can't be realistic with fantasy car, but there can be something really nice to drive. From time graphics and game mechanics stuff are done I believe it is less than a week than it would be drivable mod ready for release, around that time I believe it takes to make physics from me.
     
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  19. Jka

    Jka Member Staff Member

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    Very good post, Tuttle. :)

    Actually new packaging system is very clever and keep car/track project well organized all the time.

    When I used it first time, things felt very complicated and confusing. After using is couple of times, it went right in to my "spinal cord" and nowdays I don't need to think too much when packing things up for release.

    In my opinion (and many others) "lack of content" argument is not valid at all. We are testing prototype of rF2, which already have several cars, series and tracks made by ISI, and at least same amount of content made by modders. And this simulator is not even released yet! People have very short memory. If you make little search about first proper mod for rF1, you will be surprised how long it took after rF1 initial release to the public.

    New rF2 technology is way, way more complex platform than any other sim release up to day (including Papy/iRacing products). It will take time to develop and learn this, and it's very surprising that ISI (with relatively small team) has already released so much content and updates. As a track builder, I can't stop wondering how two guys (Luc and Scott) have already released tracks like Brianza and Monaco within so little timeframe, as I can see both of them were HUGE projects (and I don't underestimate ANY other tracks what they have already released...).

    Cheers!
     
  20. Max Angelo

    Max Angelo Registered

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    I agree with the quoted statements.

    Also, ISI will try to make the packaging system simple and versatile, but users have to understand, imo, that they have full control of the system ... they can package their mods in less than 1 min (with people who can join the server with such mod without issues, via Get Mod), they can play a mod one day and delete it the next day (so no tons of Giga wasted for Vmods) and i think the system will be useful in order to have a more crowded public (pick-up) racing, which was very hard in rF due to the infamous mismatches.

    I see the thing as a sort of trade: advanced users will lose a bit of the rF "anarchy", but hopefully the whole online service will be more simple to use, having as result more users.
    Clear, the system is still needing simplification and versatility, that is ISI job. :)
     

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