[REL] Knockhill is out in the Workshop

Discussion in 'Locations' started by davehenrie, Oct 25, 2022.

  1. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Drive Knockhill, then drive Solitude...it's all about the track surface.
     
  2. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    @davehenrie can you just focus on Knockhill?

    @davehenrie can you NOT put down a modders work? Everyone starts somewhere...
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2022
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  3. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    Me? Focu.....look at the pretty balloons!
     
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  4. gianluca

    gianluca Registered

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    Knockhill is a great add to the game, just like Solitude. Luis did a great job already with that track, it's the best looking version ever of Solitude and can only improve.
    Did a quick test yesterday with Knockhill and was fine, hotlapping alone. And good looking.
    I wonder if some data/objects comes from the pCars version. Some RF2 tracks seem converted straight for that game: I have a Cadwell Park (not from Steam), that seems laser scanned. And if I am correct there are also a Snetterton and Oulton Park with the same quality and look. Not that I'm complaining, of course. Good for us, and conversions need great skills too.
    In this case the workshop page contains a simple description of the track. Is it scratch made?
     
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  5. Alex Sawczuk

    Alex Sawczuk Administrator Staff Member

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    Knockhill is scratch made.
     
  6. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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    Mate..
    Cadwell LS?!?
    My favourite UK track?!?
    Pls.. :)
     
  7. gianluca

    gianluca Registered

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    Easy ... :) You probably have it already. Don't have installed right now, so can't check the name, but it's not a big size file and I think is the only other cadwell available for RF2 beside the one in the workshop made by Luis Barata.
    What I mean with that is that the elevations seem right, something that is almost impossible to achieve without scan data, whatever is lidar or aerial scanning. It's nothing like Sebring or PCars 1 road detail, it's not even finished and the road doesn't get wet, but to me the roadcourse seem very similar to the only laser scanned version that I tried: the pCars one. I don't know if it's entirely scratch made or if the author used the 3D road mesh of another game as a base to start with. If someone "opens" the data files of an official track to access to the road mesh and the placements of the main side objects, in order to get the best possible base for his track, I'm ok with that. He will have to do a massive work anyway to put everything together and polish it.
    Some modders did this procedure converting the Simraceway laser scanned tracks for RF1. And some of these later were used as a base for the RF2 conversion/version.
    I think that the Cadwell version that I've mentioned is done by Corti, but could be wrong, not sure. He would kick my ass for my assumption, or thanks me because I basically said that he did a good job. :p
    But mine could be also a sort of placebo, since for me, just like for Solitude, it's the best Cadwell version available for RF2.

    Oulton Park and Snetterton, instead, were something like +500MB rfcmp, but can't find it now online. Finished tracks with the graphic quality of the best Mount Panorama version for RF2, that is a 1GB track. Unfortunally I don't think that I have them saved, because I'm not really a fun of them.
    There is lot of stuff that is ripped and converted (even without asking permission) and used in private leagues, hidden to our eyes. I posted a bunch of hill climb tracks in this forum recently and they are available only in a french simracing league, nowhere else. Some are very well done and probably scratch made, completely unknown to me untill I found them.

    As for Knockhill, the RF2 version is done so well on the graphic side that feels very similar to the pCars version. The only difference that I find compared to that one, beside the side objects, is that the hairpin before the starting line feels slightly easier in RF2; I remember that in pCars was a tricky turn, the times when I did it wrong were more than the ones when I did it right. I should reinstall pCars 2 and do some back and forth to have a better comparison.
     
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  8. Alex Sawczuk

    Alex Sawczuk Administrator Staff Member

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    pcars cadwell is hugely inaccurate, it literally goes up hill when it should go downhill FYI
     
  9. gianluca

    gianluca Registered

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    Where? Seems pretty close to me, even if the camera is slightly different and the driver use a different driving line at times.
     
  10. memoNo1

    memoNo1 Registered

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  11. vava74

    vava74 Registered

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    T1 seems to be all wrong...
     
  12. gianluca

    gianluca Registered

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    The hill on the right side for sure.
     
  13. Bernat

    Bernat Registered

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    The first turn and the differences are already obvious. You're probably mistakenly thinking some tracks are laser scanned only because they have elevations resembling the real track. That isn't enough proof for a laser scanned track.

    And having the elevations wrong doesn't always mean isn't laser scanned. All laser scans aren't equally good, a good data source is needed and then they have to correctly transfer it to the emulation.
     
  14. vava74

    vava74 Registered

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    I am talking about the elevations. Probably this is what Alex was referring to as, in the mod, T1 goes up immediately from the end of the straight and the video of the actual track seems to show a significant dip, before it climbs (less).
     
  15. gianluca

    gianluca Registered

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    Cadwell was laser scanned, just like Snetterton and Oulton. I followed the development inside the WMD and gathered lot of reference for the tracks. Also, when a company claims to have made a track from lidar data and this isn't true, can be sued for that and kiss goodbye the license.
    But I can't remember if they started the development of the track before acquiring the scan data and then updated it, or made it from scratch right from that moment. They started the development of some tracks (and some cars) before having the license (like for the McLarens). I can tell that Oulton was repaved right after they finished doing it, so the real roadcourse ended up to be flat in parts where in game was still very bumpy.
    As for T1 cadwell, the hill on the right side of the road, the one we see in front going on the straight, is basically missing and this is what change everything visually, also as per the road look. The car camera in game is also slightly higher (look at the bottom of the steering wheel). I can see what seem to be a difference in the camber of the road going on the straight to the next turn on the right (T2). But honestly I don't see this evident "going uphill where it should go downhill".
    I admit that I haven't noticed this watching the movie the first time.
     
  16. Seven Smiles

    Seven Smiles Registered

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    The short straight from Mansfield to The Mountain also seems to be uphill in PCars. I remember it as pretty much flat and it looks so in the Real Life video. CadwellPCars.jpg
     
  17. vava74

    vava74 Registered

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    Captura de ecrã 2022-10-25, às 17.54.49.png Captura de ecrã 2022-10-25, às 17.54.16.png


    I disagree on the camera angle. The differential is minor, really negligible.
    Also, the videos are not perfectly syncronised, so there is some variation of perception coming from there, but these two screen grabs correct (mostly) this issue.
    As you can see, the real track goes much flatter until the well within the bend and even sees to have a small dip before going up again.
     
  18. gianluca

    gianluca Registered

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    If you look ahead, there is an entire hill missing. In game the hill is almost flat and this most likely had consequences also in the placement of the road mesh. Obviously they did it wrong.
    Going slightly ahead in the video, where the cars reach the marshall cabin on the right side, the difference is more evident, also in the placement of the guardrail and of the cabin. Basically what seems to happen is that in pCars the uphill start earlier and then the road becomes almost flat, with no camber, while the real has a camber that push you on the right. Then, when the car passes the left side cone and approach the right side turn, everything seems identical again.
    Yeah, they messed this part. Now I'm scared to pause that video in some other parts. wtf. :D
    Again, I cannot remember if they started Cadwell in the traditional way and then updated it later when they acquired the laser scanned data, or if they built it from scratch from that moment. What I find weird is that this inaccuracy survived to the WMD forum testers. Maybe has been reported, but the devs left it like that.
     
  19. davehenrie

    davehenrie Registered

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    When Microsoft Precision Racing (CART, Champcar, Indycar) debut'd, they released a demo for Laguna Seca. Aside from being insanely difficult to keep the car from boating side to side, the perceptions were wrong. It felt like you were descending the uphill run to the corkscrew, even though later conversions would prove that perception incorrect. The biggest benefit of MPR was the tracks were built in a format that was convertable, something the Papyrus Indycar & Nascar tracks were not. So we got Road America, Mid Ohio long before the ICR2 track pack appeared.(if memory serves) So does converting the P2 tracks present a better perception or are they just that wrong?
     
  20. Alex Sawczuk

    Alex Sawczuk Administrator Staff Member

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    One things for sure, this is not talk about Knockhill. Which does go up and down at the right places ;)
     
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  21. vava74

    vava74 Registered

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    Yes, amazing job by Lasercutter and, personally, I believe it is high quality enough for it to be adopted as "official base content" with just a few visual improvements here and there (as was the case of Portland?).
     
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