Karts 0.991 and Quebec SuperKarts 1.07 track available
- Thread starter 88mphTim
- Start date
Man the karts look so much more serene and easy with such a high FOV, I hope you and ViSo36 only use those high FOVs for videos and not when actually driving
Online is effin amazing...Well the netcode and collision detection is absolute crap, and so is just the way other cars around you seem to move (like they are hovering in a 1998 game, iracing is on a level about 600 times better than RF2 in this area at the moment), but the overall experience was amazing. 25 guys in the kart servers consistently all day yesterday all morning and afternoon (pacific standard time). I had some amazing races and battles with KeiKei, DrR1pper, Viso36, and other guys too Bordeau? Xav? Sorry can't remember all the names .... Just mega, awesome drivers, awesome battles, very open when it comes to talking about setup and stuff, just an awesome experience.
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Adrianstealth
Registered
online would be good with the right group of people etc
p.s zooming around a corner & seeing a tire in the middle of the track is just totally spot on to real life
p.s zooming around a corner & seeing a tire in the middle of the track is just totally spot on to real life
Denstjiro
Registered
Man the karts look so much more serene and easy with such a high FOV, I hope you and ViSo36 only use those high FOVs for videos and not when actually driving
Online is effin amazing...Well the netcode and collision detection is absolute crap, and so is just the way other cars around you seem to move (like they are hovering in a 1998 game, iracing is on a level about 600 times better than RF2 in this area at the moment), but the overall experience was amazing. 25 guys in the kart servers consistently all day yesterday all morning and afternoon (pacific standard time). I had some amazing races and battles with KeiKei, DrR1pper, Viso36 .... Just mega.
I was there too although I needed a bit more practise to be competitive. But man was it mayham! such chaos
Fun though!
Adrianstealth
Registered
is the online quality acknowledged by devs & on the list for improvement ?
does it need improving a lot ?
( "netcode" etc )
p.s not done a lot of online with rf2 so I don't really know myself as awaiting it to be a tad more down the line of development (it's made good progress recently)
does it need improving a lot ?
( "netcode" etc )
p.s not done a lot of online with rf2 so I don't really know myself as awaiting it to be a tad more down the line of development (it's made good progress recently)
I still haven't even figured out how to reverse yet lol, something about holding down "shift" and some move button or something? Anyways I hope ISI do not implement a reverse gear, real karts don't have reverse, real kart racers get screwed when they need to reverse as it takes time for them to get out and push it, hop back in, etc. I hope ISI doesn't go soft and against realism just to make things "easier" for us players.
Adrianstealth
Registered
reverse worked for me when I got stuck, by holding in the shift down paddle
(use what ever you have configured)
but when I tried it again it didn't seem to work so not quite sure yet
p.s I'll have to host on my 2nd PC, I have a fast net connection, we'll have to do a karting event!
(use what ever you have configured)
but when I tried it again it didn't seem to work so not quite sure yet
p.s I'll have to host on my 2nd PC, I have a fast net connection, we'll have to do a karting event!
DrR1pper
Registered
I'm no net code expert but i think there maybe a limit with what can be feasibly achieved. When your pint to the server is 350ms as well as other drivers, it leads to chaos when slight contact is made. When you would normally expect a slight bump, instead it can be like a pair of opposing neodymium magnets. In first person shooters on equivalently high ping servers, you end up with being shot by other players when you're clearly no long in harms way on your screen (e.g. you've gotten away from danger by going for cover around a corner out of the enemy's line-of-sight and about a second later you've been shot because on their screens you're still in the running for cover phase, lol). I think perhaps this is our equivalent for racing.
Woohoo!
I have found that when i hit a static object, it either takes a little time for the reverse by downshifting to become available or i have to keep accelerating into the object in order for the reverse option to become available. It's not all too clear what is exactly the trigger but in either case i understand (if it was intended so) why there is a delay before being able to reverse the kart. You have to quickly hop out and push back the thing which takes time.
If the trigger explained above is true but also a bit glitchy, perhaps it would be better to have the reverse become available whenever you stop the kart for a set amount of time to simulate the driving hopping out to push back?
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My take on the karts...
Overall AMAZING, SUBLIME, A PROPER SIM-CAR REGARDLESS OF WHAT SIM GAME / ENGINE YOU ARE A FAN OF. IF ANY ISI-PHYSICS HATERS (don't understand how anyone could even dislike RF2 physics, overall) DON'T LIKE THIS CAR AND THINK IT'S CRAP THEN I'M SORRY BUT YOU ARE JUST BIASED AND A HATER/BASHER/FANBOY BECAUSE THE PHYSICS OF THIS ARE AMAZING REGARDLESS OF WHAT SIM YOU NORMALLY LIKE / DISLIKE. EITHER THAT OR YOU JUST SIMPLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT A REAL KART IS LIKE.
Most people can see and feel how amazing and true to life they are, with the steering angles, the way the grip comes in and out during different steering inputs, during different throttle and brake balances (especially during the initial turn-in and the second part of turn-in as you are making your way towards the apex). I am not going to go on about details on how they are so amazing because most people can already see and feel it. However I am going to voice my personal opinion on just three things that negatively stick out for me....(I think the issue with point #1 is more an issue with the underlying RF engine, rather than a kart specific problem, but I believe the Karts being so "hard-edged" tend to bring this issue out more than most cars).
1. When you get in a "bigger" oversteer moment. You sometimes feel like you need to apply, let's say 30 or so degrees of steering lock to save a big slide (not a tiny twitch slide), but then as soon as you get to about 20 degrees as you are applying the lock them BAM all of a sudden it regains grip and it just instantly snaps you the other way in a mega lightning fast overcorrection. I have noticed this physics phenomenon in many RFactor 1 cars, where for some reason the lock needed to correct a big slide is less than it actually feels/seems like is needed. FOr example it feels like you need 45 degrees of steering angle to correct a slide in whatever car, and as you are correcting and turning your wheel towards 45 degrees, all of a sudden when you are at around the 30 degree mark (for arguments sake) the car will out of nowhere just almost instantly and out of nowhere regain it's grip and just correct and just snap the other way. If it doesn't snap you into an over correction spin then it will just send you into this weird oscillating, real quick, left-right-left correction rather than just the normal "save slide with initial steering lock, and then correct back to centre, done" technique.
This would happen many times in RFactor 1, even the most amazing mods/RFactor 1 based products would exhibit this behavior once you got to a certain point (although some definitely did a better job at hiding it, almost to the point most would probably never experience/notice it). RFactor 2 seems to have massively fixed this problem from RF1, however it seems that the harder edged the cars become the more this phenomenon seems to rear it's ugly head. You can feel and just tell as you are correcting a slide how much lock you need to correct it, but as you are heading towards that lock the car then just re-grips seemingly early out of nowhere and therefore corrects so harshly that it can lead you to massive over-correction (sometimes causing a massively quick over-correction spin, other times, as you get used to it, just causing a very un-natural save of the slide where you apply such little lock and it feels very overly touchy and artificial). You can see this easily when watching open wheel car slides and corrections on TV. Even when we have the correct steering lock in-game which matches the real-life steering lock and most of their regular steering inputs, when it comes to saving a bigger slide we always seem to need such a smaller amount of steering lock to correct that slide. Netkar Pro and the super early version of Driver's Republic (same physics genius that did Richard Burns Rally) pretty much nailed this whole "steering lock angle to correcting a large oversteer moment ratio" (notice I said Netkar Pro, NOT Kunos's other sim.)
The karts seem to bring this physics phenomenon out. Once you get used to it you can prevent the karts, for the most part, to getting to that point and then you will not notice it and everything is fine, but it really limits you in just how far you can go with the oversteer as going too far with the oversteer will just snap you to the other end with the weird correction physics phenomenon buried deep in RF's physics engine (going back before even RF1, but thankfully always improving).
Once I took the auto "vehicle set" steering lock off and just set it to 300 (I think vehicle set was setting it to 187) then it did feel a bit better, but now the steering ratio quickness was compromised in terms of realism in order to try and adjust it to help with a seeming physics flaw.
Having said that, I raced from about 8 am to 4 pm in the karts yesterday and had an AMAZING time. Once you get used to the kart and keeping it within it's limits (you are still constantly going over the limits and correcting perfectly fine, remember I am just being picky here) and away from that area of oversteer that I mentioned above then they are so unbelievably good! For those 6 hours of online play I probably only got in that situation less than 10 times after the first hour of getting used to it. So honestly it's not a huge deal, but it's this underlying physics phenomenon that has gone back from even before RFactor 1. It's buried deep, DEEP, in the ISI physics engine.
2. Sometimes when you are on the grass at literally like 3 Km/h you just go into this mega lighting spin. I am literally pressing my throttle like 5%, my toes are barely touching my pedal and my speed is literally under 5 km/h and BAM lighting quick spin out. I don't care who you are there is just no chance of correcting it. Other than this and what I mentioned above it's just heaven - 9.5/10.
3. I do feel in real-life that you can have the kart come into the corner in more of an angled drift, and steadily hold it there, rather than having to do snap corrections and always being "scared" that you are going to loose it and it's going to snap the other way. The tyres do allow you to maintain that sideways momentum longer in real-life, where in RF2 it seems like it's more scary and that the car might just snap on you, either into the corner or the other way upon the weird snap over-correction. This issue might have a direct connection to issue #1 posted above. Having said that, you can still use the rear to go sideways into the corner like real karts, it's just things constantly seem more snappy. (Maybe part of this is just down to lack of G-Force and relatively laggy wheels and PC's relative to real-life, so I cannot blame the physics 100%).
I cannot fault most of the grip situations in any way, not the way it regains grip, the way it looses grip. the entire chassis dynamics from initial braking until exit, and so on and so on, nothing I can critizize at all, (except again if you ever get into the situation I explained above, more of a general RF physics issue than a specific Kart issue though). Almost everything is absolutely sublime. Just the tinniest bit of understeer on the exit pushing me wide off the track and the quickest lift of the throttle and back on (literally as fast as I can do it) and I am back on line, the rear rotation into corners, just everything. They are not only the best karts of any sim ever, but some of the best most realistic sim cars of any sim ever. I still have some issues with FFB feel, but in terms of vehicle behavior modelling (yes, unlike some people, I know how to distinguish pure in-game vehicle behavior from my own personal FFB "feel", ahem you know who you are) they are some of the best sim cars of any sim EVER
.
Regarding the track graphics. ISI already stated it's a very, very old track so I wasn't expecting much. I was playing on mostly everything medium with both refelctions off and absolutely no Antialiasing whatsoever. Well I am not going to say much else because ISI already know it really needs to be improved, but what I am going to say is that after I rolled out of the pits on my very first ever lap I never noticed, or cared for, the grpahics again. I was concentrating on driving so hard, where to find tenths, where I am loosing out, how to slightly change my technique for a certain corner in order for the kart to do a certain thing, etc. etc. that the graphics never, EVER, even crossed my mind. The driving was amazing and nice lighting, textures, refelctions, etc. would not change any of that. However a few hours later when I took a break and went into manually TV cam mode (controlled by mouse), then yes sadly I was reminded about the graphics, but that was the only time. One thing to point out, that blue and red balloon thing you go under looks VERY realistic in how it moves around from the air and wind and such, especially at 120 fps / 120 hz. Extremely nice touch to detail regarding the "movement graphics" of that balloon arch thingy.
Final Note: Forgot to mention, in my experience of a real rotax 125cc the powerband seemed to kick in much harder and aggressively once you got into the power band (not sure exactly what RPM as I wasn't looking at the dash, actually I could hardly even read the dash as everything was vibrating, moving and bouncing too much, it really is that rough in real-life. Probably around 7 - 10 thousand RPM), where as these feel more constant and smooth as it rises from minimum to max revs. Then again I thought the same regarding the Game Stock Car karts, so maybe they infact are modelled properly and it's just that I can't feel it properly due to lack of g-force, vibrations, sound modelling, etc.
Overall AMAZING, SUBLIME, A PROPER SIM-CAR REGARDLESS OF WHAT SIM GAME / ENGINE YOU ARE A FAN OF. IF ANY ISI-PHYSICS HATERS (don't understand how anyone could even dislike RF2 physics, overall) DON'T LIKE THIS CAR AND THINK IT'S CRAP THEN I'M SORRY BUT YOU ARE JUST BIASED AND A HATER/BASHER/FANBOY BECAUSE THE PHYSICS OF THIS ARE AMAZING REGARDLESS OF WHAT SIM YOU NORMALLY LIKE / DISLIKE. EITHER THAT OR YOU JUST SIMPLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT A REAL KART IS LIKE.
Most people can see and feel how amazing and true to life they are, with the steering angles, the way the grip comes in and out during different steering inputs, during different throttle and brake balances (especially during the initial turn-in and the second part of turn-in as you are making your way towards the apex). I am not going to go on about details on how they are so amazing because most people can already see and feel it. However I am going to voice my personal opinion on just three things that negatively stick out for me....(I think the issue with point #1 is more an issue with the underlying RF engine, rather than a kart specific problem, but I believe the Karts being so "hard-edged" tend to bring this issue out more than most cars).
1. When you get in a "bigger" oversteer moment. You sometimes feel like you need to apply, let's say 30 or so degrees of steering lock to save a big slide (not a tiny twitch slide), but then as soon as you get to about 20 degrees as you are applying the lock them BAM all of a sudden it regains grip and it just instantly snaps you the other way in a mega lightning fast overcorrection. I have noticed this physics phenomenon in many RFactor 1 cars, where for some reason the lock needed to correct a big slide is less than it actually feels/seems like is needed. FOr example it feels like you need 45 degrees of steering angle to correct a slide in whatever car, and as you are correcting and turning your wheel towards 45 degrees, all of a sudden when you are at around the 30 degree mark (for arguments sake) the car will out of nowhere just almost instantly and out of nowhere regain it's grip and just correct and just snap the other way. If it doesn't snap you into an over correction spin then it will just send you into this weird oscillating, real quick, left-right-left correction rather than just the normal "save slide with initial steering lock, and then correct back to centre, done" technique.
This would happen many times in RFactor 1, even the most amazing mods/RFactor 1 based products would exhibit this behavior once you got to a certain point (although some definitely did a better job at hiding it, almost to the point most would probably never experience/notice it). RFactor 2 seems to have massively fixed this problem from RF1, however it seems that the harder edged the cars become the more this phenomenon seems to rear it's ugly head. You can feel and just tell as you are correcting a slide how much lock you need to correct it, but as you are heading towards that lock the car then just re-grips seemingly early out of nowhere and therefore corrects so harshly that it can lead you to massive over-correction (sometimes causing a massively quick over-correction spin, other times, as you get used to it, just causing a very un-natural save of the slide where you apply such little lock and it feels very overly touchy and artificial). You can see this easily when watching open wheel car slides and corrections on TV. Even when we have the correct steering lock in-game which matches the real-life steering lock and most of their regular steering inputs, when it comes to saving a bigger slide we always seem to need such a smaller amount of steering lock to correct that slide. Netkar Pro and the super early version of Driver's Republic (same physics genius that did Richard Burns Rally) pretty much nailed this whole "steering lock angle to correcting a large oversteer moment ratio" (notice I said Netkar Pro, NOT Kunos's other sim.)
The karts seem to bring this physics phenomenon out. Once you get used to it you can prevent the karts, for the most part, to getting to that point and then you will not notice it and everything is fine, but it really limits you in just how far you can go with the oversteer as going too far with the oversteer will just snap you to the other end with the weird correction physics phenomenon buried deep in RF's physics engine (going back before even RF1, but thankfully always improving).
Once I took the auto "vehicle set" steering lock off and just set it to 300 (I think vehicle set was setting it to 187) then it did feel a bit better, but now the steering ratio quickness was compromised in terms of realism in order to try and adjust it to help with a seeming physics flaw.
Having said that, I raced from about 8 am to 4 pm in the karts yesterday and had an AMAZING time. Once you get used to the kart and keeping it within it's limits (you are still constantly going over the limits and correcting perfectly fine, remember I am just being picky here) and away from that area of oversteer that I mentioned above then they are so unbelievably good! For those 6 hours of online play I probably only got in that situation less than 10 times after the first hour of getting used to it. So honestly it's not a huge deal, but it's this underlying physics phenomenon that has gone back from even before RFactor 1. It's buried deep, DEEP, in the ISI physics engine.
2. Sometimes when you are on the grass at literally like 3 Km/h you just go into this mega lighting spin. I am literally pressing my throttle like 5%, my toes are barely touching my pedal and my speed is literally under 5 km/h and BAM lighting quick spin out. I don't care who you are there is just no chance of correcting it. Other than this and what I mentioned above it's just heaven - 9.5/10.
3. I do feel in real-life that you can have the kart come into the corner in more of an angled drift, and steadily hold it there, rather than having to do snap corrections and always being "scared" that you are going to loose it and it's going to snap the other way. The tyres do allow you to maintain that sideways momentum longer in real-life, where in RF2 it seems like it's more scary and that the car might just snap on you, either into the corner or the other way upon the weird snap over-correction. This issue might have a direct connection to issue #1 posted above. Having said that, you can still use the rear to go sideways into the corner like real karts, it's just things constantly seem more snappy. (Maybe part of this is just down to lack of G-Force and relatively laggy wheels and PC's relative to real-life, so I cannot blame the physics 100%).
I cannot fault most of the grip situations in any way, not the way it regains grip, the way it looses grip. the entire chassis dynamics from initial braking until exit, and so on and so on, nothing I can critizize at all, (except again if you ever get into the situation I explained above, more of a general RF physics issue than a specific Kart issue though). Almost everything is absolutely sublime. Just the tinniest bit of understeer on the exit pushing me wide off the track and the quickest lift of the throttle and back on (literally as fast as I can do it) and I am back on line, the rear rotation into corners, just everything. They are not only the best karts of any sim ever, but some of the best most realistic sim cars of any sim ever. I still have some issues with FFB feel, but in terms of vehicle behavior modelling (yes, unlike some people, I know how to distinguish pure in-game vehicle behavior from my own personal FFB "feel", ahem you know who you are) they are some of the best sim cars of any sim EVER
.Regarding the track graphics. ISI already stated it's a very, very old track so I wasn't expecting much. I was playing on mostly everything medium with both refelctions off and absolutely no Antialiasing whatsoever. Well I am not going to say much else because ISI already know it really needs to be improved, but what I am going to say is that after I rolled out of the pits on my very first ever lap I never noticed, or cared for, the grpahics again. I was concentrating on driving so hard, where to find tenths, where I am loosing out, how to slightly change my technique for a certain corner in order for the kart to do a certain thing, etc. etc. that the graphics never, EVER, even crossed my mind. The driving was amazing and nice lighting, textures, refelctions, etc. would not change any of that. However a few hours later when I took a break and went into manually TV cam mode (controlled by mouse), then yes sadly I was reminded about the graphics, but that was the only time. One thing to point out, that blue and red balloon thing you go under looks VERY realistic in how it moves around from the air and wind and such, especially at 120 fps / 120 hz. Extremely nice touch to detail regarding the "movement graphics" of that balloon arch thingy.
Final Note: Forgot to mention, in my experience of a real rotax 125cc the powerband seemed to kick in much harder and aggressively once you got into the power band (not sure exactly what RPM as I wasn't looking at the dash, actually I could hardly even read the dash as everything was vibrating, moving and bouncing too much, it really is that rough in real-life. Probably around 7 - 10 thousand RPM), where as these feel more constant and smooth as it rises from minimum to max revs. Then again I thought the same regarding the Game Stock Car karts, so maybe they infact are modelled properly and it's just that I can't feel it properly due to lack of g-force, vibrations, sound modelling, etc.
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Luke Szulc
Registered
Hi guys maybe someone could help. I created the mod with these karts. I run dedicated server. Installed. However when my or my collegues try to join, the button is greyed out and it states no mod found. I tried reinstalled it all and still the same. Im so puzzled with it.
Galaga
Banned
I don't know what's worse. Being out of town and WONDERING how awesome these things are or being out of town and KNOWING how awesome they are. In my case it's the second one. I'm defo calling in sick when I get back in town. Maybe I can work out while I'm outta town to prep for the marathon
The kart handling is great - they feel very true to life from my experience, although, I haven't driven true racing karts. One issue I would like to mention is that of sound. I know these engines are very low-torque from low rev's but, there should still be some engine tone change that occurs when pressing the gas pedal IMO. The low RPM's may need to ramp up slowly but, a little more gradually at the start. It seems like the rev's remain constant for too long at the start but, aside from that minor detail, the karts are a blast to race.
The karts are great, This may sound silly but is there a way to have rolling starts as I cant find it in the settings, I have a good setting on these the more I play them as I have slowly turned up the ffb, but it gets to a point where the steering moves from side to side any good steering settings anyone, and has anyone created anymore karting tracks as I cant find any I have loads that I have created for kart racing pro but they will take some time to convert.
Marc Collins
Registered
1. I agree this is the way the karts feel in rF2 and it is my experience of how they react in real life. However, I don't feel this in the other cars at all. In fact, the opposite. The rear ends usually feel too light and too prone to uncontrollable over-steer versus what I sense should be the case. But karts do react that way!
2. The grass thing is an issue, but it's not unique to the karts. No track has properly modelled off-track surfaces and the annoying issue of tires building up heat as if they are dragging across asphalt even though you are sliding like you are on wet grass is proof of the wonkiness. I won't make any judgements about the karts on grass until the core problem is addressed (which is long overdue).
3. Again, I feel like it is realistic, but man do you need a heavy/strong wheel to make it realistic from the sim driver end of things. I am lucky now that I have that, but I am trying to imagine what it would have felt like with my old G25? I, too, got sore arms and was reminded of that visceral arm and muscle tension and rapid and harsh weight shifting in a real kart that allows you to dance along the edge of the balance curve. With a lighter-feeling wheel and of course no weight shifting, it's just never going to be as immersive, but this is not really different from the other simulated vehicles. The karts are just at one end of the point it and go spectrum (perhaps the opposite of the Panoz!)
Regarding track graphics, as I mentioned earlier, I am sure they will get a nice update along with the other older tracks. The only "complaint" I have is that even though surface imperfections are nicely represented and there are a good selection of bumps and ripples modelled, many of the visual imperfections are smooth as glass. There should be at least very minor imperfections everywhere there is a seam or rough pavement shown in the graphical display.
88mphTim
racesimcentral.net
That's what the new collision model was the beginning of (the one which got disabled the build after it was first enabled).
88mphTim
racesimcentral.net
He doesn't have the rfmod you created and are hosting with.
1959nikos
Registered
Last night I tried to join some servers but buttons were grey.
I went out of game and when I rejoined it was ok and I could get mod.
Maybe gray button pb has not been entirely solved.