Jeremy Miller tweets (Senior Programmer at ISI)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by TIG_green, Feb 21, 2013.

  1. GaryL

    GaryL Registered

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    If you install Win7 32bit twice, does that make it 64bit?.
     
  2. Thrindil

    Thrindil Registered

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    Made my day.
     
  3. Coanda

    Coanda Registered

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    silly one. would anyone know roughly when the new build is expected to arrive?
     
  4. freew67

    freew67 Registered

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    No one does... not even the NSA. :)
     
  5. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    I get "out of memory" crashes whenever I try to get more than a few textures on screen, even at their lowest display settings. I have to be really careful about what is visible when I press F3.
    It used to happen with Photoshop too, before they went 64bit. And I now have a 32gb Ram system ;)
    I guess if the smaller circuits aren't using near 3-4gb ram in 3dsmax they might not benefit so much.
    But I expect I'd be able to work more quickly on my bigger track, with more textures at better viewport texture resolution, and more things visible.
    It's kinda sad since Max comes in 32 and 64bit, and the plugs are the only thing holding it back. Now that I hear it could be on the cards... :D
     
  6. freew67

    freew67 Registered

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    See that's odd because I can have 100's of textures on the screen with 0 issues (plus 2 monitors, Photoshop/Skype/YIM/Google Earth/IE/Chrome open as well). I have 12gb of Ram in this comp with an older Intel I7 quad. I have helped with a 2 mile oval and still had 0 issues loading it (300,000+ polys). To me it sounds more like an issue with your system vs 32 bit max. Im also using 2010 max.
     
  7. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    Well, it was my older comp (i5) with 16gb that got the errors, this one is new and i've not done any extensive work with it yet, but I've got 2,178,437 tris in the file too. Both systems using Max '11.
    I've just loaded it up on the new compy, and with all object visible, and about five textures loaded, it's on it's knees. (inc grass and road textures @2048px).
    17fps in wireframe with loaded textures (can live with that), 0.8 in flat shaded with those few textures loaded (not so good).
    Then I put it back in wireframe, zoomed out, and bam (the sounds of max crashing).
    The project loads a lot faster with the new CPU though :D (probs at least 5x faster - now only 10 seconds! - you might guess my love/hate towards autosave!!)

    On the old 16gb box I've had the project loaded, while testing in game, and with relevant photoshop texture files open. It's texture/tri load in max that seems to be the issue.
    Anyway, I promise I won't complain if 64bit plugs don't help :)
     
  8. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    it's not for the sake of arguing, imagine the power of our software if software developers really took advantage of full 64-bit addresses, instructions, features, etc. (sorry I may have butchered those terms I'm not too educated on the subject) instead of just simply having access to more system RAM? I mean does being able to use more system RAM change any of the core fundamentals of the "power" of the software? Is it going to allow much more complex physics while barely lowering framerates? Is it going to allow the software to process much more per instruction? No. It doesn't really change the fundamentals of the software itself, it doesn't have any effect on the software except, for example in RFactor 2's case you want more opponents and/or a bigger track. It's not really truly using any more power or efficiencny gains of true 64-bit software/programming, if you know what I mean.

    By the way, this isn't a complaint to ISI, almost noone uses proper full 64-bit, so this wasn't directed towards ISI, just a general thing for all software developers because it bothers me how I bought my first 64-bit processor in I think 2005 (AMD FX-57) and things still aren't properly 64-bit yet in 2014, 9 years later. I don't know whats so silly or immature about that.

    When I said misleading i wasn't talking about ISI, i meant in general. It is a litttle misleading becuse other than addressing more RAM, it's still functioning 99% as a 32-bit program and that misleads people, or can, at least in my case. For example, when I read that Iracing was going 64-bit I was thinking the 64-bit version would have way higher framerates, and/or the IRacing guys were going to really make huge leaps in the physics engine and other parts in the software because of the power and efficiency they would have gained from 64-bits, stuff that would "melt" a 32-bit program. Then i found out the game didn't change, it just can now use some more RAM of yours if it ever happens to need to, THAT'S IT, that's the only difference. So yes it can be misleading, if like me you used to think that 64-bit meant true proper 64-bit (not just using some more of your RAM whenever the game may happen to need some).

    I'm totally glad ISI is going for it though so that at least the software can use more RAM for more opponents & bigger tracks, don't get me wrong, i'm just saying. Plus, i'm sure all the real hardcore techie guys out there probably agree with me and would love to see this stuff finally start being implemented for all us consumers. It's the same idea with software taking full advantage of 4, 6 even 8 cores, the hardware is out there, the technology is out there, and it will allow current software to do sooooooooo much more on our current reasonably priced hardware, but for some reason or another it just aint happening (well hardly).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 11, 2014
  9. fischkopf

    fischkopf Registered

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    Excuse me Spinelli, but you should not judge anyone for not using 64bit when you do not know what 64bit means.
    No one should argue without facts and a basic understanding about the topic.
     
  10. C3PO

    C3PO Registered

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    64-bits can bring other issues too not easily solved... so careful thought is needed to get it right. More RAM availability is the single biggest improvement.
     
  11. gagipro

    gagipro Registered

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    GO 64 !

    the slower pc without 64 bits support are pc from 10 years ago !

    It was ok for RF1 : time to upgrade :)
     
  12. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

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    Like it was already said here - they would have to maintain two branches of code in order to support 32-bit system users.

    Many performance factors are the same for 32-bit and 64-bit software. Memory is equally fast, cache is equally fast, arithmetic processor is equally fast, graphics card is equally fast. End user will not see that much of a difference between 32-bit and 64-bit code. The one difference he will notice is the one related to memory limitations.

    Switching to 64-bit is not as straightforward and all-beneficial as many people think. This kind of decision is best left to developers working on given software.

    True. Switching to 64-bit may even cause some fragments of code to run slower due to higher memory footprint. Not to mention potential compatibility issues with already released mods. It's a lot of work for programmers to review the code before going 64.
     
  13. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I never realised how little 64-bit adds to the table. I thought I read years back that when things were designed natively in full 64-bit that it would be this huge step forward.

    Maybe I misunderstood or just didn't read it properly, i'm not sure, sorry for ranting and taking my 64-bit frustrations out on the ISI forums.

    Apologies.
     
  14. 64r

    64r Registered

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    This may help as a basic overview of 32bit vs 64bit. http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/32-bit-and-64-bit-explained.htm

    The move to 64bit can be complicated and is now required for rF2, so kudos to the ISI team for acknowledging this and moving forward. The applications that I have been involved with that have moved to 64bit versions were almost always changed to overcome the memory limitations of 32 bit user space. It's pretty easy to hit the 2GB limit when dealing with any sort of simulation application (physics, financial, etc), I suspect that any other vehicle sim software (iRacing, pCars, AC etc) that is not 64bit will already be considering a future path to 64bit.
     
  15. C3PO

    C3PO Registered

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    Project Cars is going 64-bit - build last week released the first x64 exe.
     
  16. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Thanks for that link 64r
     
  17. coops

    coops Banned

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    How much of a priority would this be for the sim moving forward to ISI and the user ?
     
  18. 88mphTim

    88mphTim I'm new here Staff Member

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    Jeremy's tweet says the status as "on the radar". I've never had a memory CTD, but I run the BTCC car and F2 cars offline mainly, which have fairly small AI fields. In terms of user issue, it's pretty big obviously if they use enough cars to cause a CTD.
     
  19. C3PO

    C3PO Registered

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    It could explain some of the crashes we have experienced in the SimHQ SCES endurance series which has attracted large grids.
     
  20. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    I race in a league that does endurance racing in rf1 where our average field size is 40. We are in the process of switching to rf2. It will be interesting to see how it goes in rf2.
     

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