Isi, please change your minds about tyre design in rf2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by gilloux31, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    Forgive me if I am mistaken, but aren't tire designs being withheld by the manufacturer's of racing tires to keep their competitors from duplicating them? This alone would make it real tough to be able to duplicate them.

    As to parameters for building a tire file, I think there should be as much information as possible put into the file to ensure that the tire will react as expected. The lack of transparency when it comes to testing might be an issue though. Perhaps ISI will release a tool for creating tires that will allow near real performance when done with their tool, or perhaps they will just supply the tires for the modders, who knows :)

    The fact that it was easier to create tires in rF1 suggests that perhaps they needed to update the way things were done to get a more realistic result as well as to make the tires work correctly with the game engine and their physics. I am hoping that they use the F2 driver to test the results of their tires as well as the car itself to be fairly certain that the car handles in all aspects like the real one.
     
  2. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    Yep. Modern race tires are extremely complicated. So many different compounds, from so many different manufacturers it's crazy. I'd assume ISI has a "tire guy". IMO let him deal with the headache. As long as setups make sense and are close to what you could see in real life I'm happy.
     
  3. jubuttib

    jubuttib Registered

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    They haven't announced any, but the rTrainer is running very basic street tyres. That right there is a chance.
     
  4. jtbo

    jtbo Registered

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    Those are closer to semi slicks than street tires, imo.

    There was earlier discussion of this with this and those are certainly not basic street tires, but street legal DOT racing tires are closer to those.

    Nokian Hakka i3 and such are basic street tires, then there are sporty street tires like Continental Sport contact 2, then grooved racing tires that are legal to use on road but which have grip at very different levels compared to even sporty street tires, having cof around 1.5 instead of 0.7-1.2 of basic to sporty street tires, structure that can handle racing well, where if you take Hakka i3 to track they start to self destroy themselves in 10 laps or so, don't really know but sidewalls are so soft that even wind changes direction of car with those :D

    And for me 50's to 70's bias and those early radials are most of interest, very soft sidewalls also, compared to today's street tires grip is lot lower and when braking maximum slowing down is achieved by locking wheels, while modern radials operate best without locking wheels, lot of differences.

    Very challenging to make such for rF2, especially as there really is not much to use as base, so I just need to figure out most things from scratch.

    I still think that in a way rF2 tires are lot easier to work with than rF1 tires, yes, lot is different, but at least most of stuff requires less amount of science engineering and are fairly logical and easy to figure out what each thing does, challenge lies of course there how to figure out proper way of setting those parameters based on geometry you make as to make tires realistic one would need to have geometry and realtime parameters to support each other as realtime parameters should be result from geometry, but then again you can easily make tire do what you want by adjusting realtime section, so that one that drives can't tell difference.

    So in a way it is easier, in a way it is not. You can have 'unrealistic' tire that provides realistic handling to car matching to numbers nicely, if you can make tire do that, then why would you spend 20 times (or more) of time to make it perfectly realistic? Of course because we all seek ultimate realism where everything is right, but think about it how that possibility can help mods of modders with less time and resources to be closer to reality?

    From realtime section, with these you can make tire to be whatever you like, values from rTrainer. I'm just wondering if by making geometry, wouldn't it be possible to have tire tool to compute all these, from my understanding properties put to geometry should have enough data to calculate adhesion and deformation, also temperature effects with some clever formula?
    If you know shore hardness of rubber and input material properties for such rubber, wouldn't it be possible to have simulated test of how grippy it is? It is said that rubber can only be measured, but if we know measured results for three different rubber hardness, then we could already draw curve that represents grip vs hardness, so I'm just thinking here that such could really be computed for our purposes. One just would have to have science degree of engineering or something.

    Anyone who figures out how to compute those numbers properly from real tire and sharing it will earn forever gratitude of all modders for sure :p
     
  5. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I think this is something you will see. We sometimes have to encrypt the cars we get, because the teams ask us to protect THEIR data which is within the car we build. We do plan to have some kind of access for you to examples, both of tires and of cars. The new version of the rTrainer, for example, doesn't require encryption, so it is likely to be a good example.
     
  6. Fabio Pittol

    Fabio Pittol Registered

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    Tim, I know the business world is not that simple, but maybe in the future would be cool if you guys shift the focus of more car licenses to spend some resources on building some tire models. Just throwing out my 2 cents anyway! :D
     
  7. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I've asked if this can be done earlier than they intended. Only issue might be if they intend to change something in the tire model later.
     
  8. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    It's nice to read this :)
     
  9. Fabio Pittol

    Fabio Pittol Registered

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    Well, better than I expected! ;)

    You're right, while in beta is actually too risky, or just not worthy.
     

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