Is rfactor 2 a good option for modders ? (at this stage in its development)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Adrianstealth, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Hi all

    I'm not a modder, but have read with interest some good posts some of which seem to conflict,
    On one side the opinion seems to be rf2 is currently a very good platform to mod upon on,
    the other currently it is the opposite perhaps due to the fact that it's still to early in its development

    Example below (I really hope the original poster minds me posting it here -I can quickly remove it if need be )
    regarding an excellent mod that's currently on rfacror 1 only historX :

    (Posted mid 2013 )

    "Regarding a beta of HistorX for rF2 I have to say that we do have some cars already in rF2, but as it's on development phase yet and some critical stuff is being changed we've decided to hold most of the development until things are more or less stable (among other reasons). Just think about physics, for example: it's already complex just considering doing them for a game which is already released. So creating physics while the physics engine is being modified would force us to re-check or/and re-do them when they release a new version of the game. That's too much work for a process which is already a huge amount of work... So be patient, because there won't be a beta of the mod at least until rF2 is released :) "
    ----------------------------------------

    Some great mods have already been released, a few good quality tracks & cars so this shows it's possible,

    Will there be a stage that ISI will state that the core physics etc of rf2 is developed enough for modders to feel safe enough to develop/release mods ? This would be a very good thing Thus attracting the good modders from rfactor 1
    (Rf1 -which still seems to be going strong from what I can gather )
    An instruction video might also help even if it only shows the differences between modding for rf1 & rf2.

    I feel there is an excellent choice of cars for rfactor 2 ( the official ISI ones are top notch )
    But it would be nice to have a better selection of optimised/decent looking tracks so more modding activity would be a real plus for rfactor 2 & the community.
     
  2. Petros Mak

    Petros Mak Registered

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    Its been a good option for modders since it was released to be honest with you. I think too many spent far too much time crying about the differences between rF1 than actually buckling down and learning those differences.

    rF2 does pose a few issues for modders and that is in the learning curve and in the time consumption area. rF2 is a bit more time consuming to mod when it concerns vehicles, especially the tire model which can take up to 8 hours to process a TGM file and if its wrong...go again for another 8 hours after you've made the changes you think are the cause. I know from several that they wished for more documentation in various areas, this is something that is indeed lacking, however, not something you can't overcome without the trial and error process. The tire tool and TGM also requires modders to raise their learning curve and learn it which is not easy but also not 100% difficult either. Again with trial and error and commitment, you can learn it.

    In regards to new builds coming out all the time. I think modders need to not use that as an excuse and just get cracking. I've heard a number of modders who have opted to boycott rF2 in favor of AC, well newsflash to those modders but AC will also be constantly updated and the same fault they complain about in rF2 updates can happen in AC just as much.

    In my experience rF2's updates have NEVER broken our mods. We have found areas we had to fix after an update but all have been due to our internal mistakes, like naming materials the same as ISI's names which conflicted and caused issues. It was a simple 2 minute fix.

    The packaging system is also a 2 minute thing, its not as hard as people make it out to be.

    I think now is the perfect time for modders to get cracking into rF2, and if they don't know something, ASK! that's why there is a forum here, for people to ask questions and get answers. (Shocking I know! O_O)

    That's my two cents.
     
  3. Tuttle

    Tuttle Technical Art Director - Env Lead Staff Member

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    Adrian,

    there are no differences between what a modder can do and what ISI track and car guys are doing. They're releasing and modding tracks and cars. We're releasing and creating tracks and cars. 100% the same core.


    As for the quote; I can't see any dramatic change in the physics to stop anyone modding something. I started modding my Dallara almost 2 years ago now, and what I'd have to change in 2014 is the new chassis stuff and few tweaks here and there in the aero and sound compartment. Nothing less, nothing more. The point is nobody is going to introduce a physics improvement making previous cars flying like planes so, as already said, I can't see anything preventing anyone modding, apart the complexity of the task, which is high. The worst scenario is you need to put your hands on your mod to fine tuning with latest improvements and then release an update. What's wrong with that? :)


    Same for tracks; Dunsfold is more than 1 year old and it still works on latest builds because new shaders are not going to change old exports to avoid problems with previous contents so it's a matter of choice if update the track with latest shaders or not. I used Dunsfold as example to stay on the modder side but it's the same for everything. Feels3 tracks are still working as well, apart the tree issue which is very easy to fix with a new export.

    Old cars are still working. Old tracks are still working. We can all just improve.


    Cheers.
     
  4. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    Great cheers for the points both,

    In that case modders should be moving over to rf2 more, if I only had more time I'd get straight into track building :(
     
  5. Nand Gate

    Nand Gate Banned

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    Hahaha. If you want a direct response to your question - then no. At this stage in development the current release is so unworkable that a large percentage of the community simply cannot play anymore - that is - they literally cannot connect to servers to participate.

    I find it amusing to come in here and find a response to your direct question - but don't bother asking about what I am talking about. No one will say a thing.

    Try it.

    Edit: HAS it been good for modding? Sure - except for the new learning curve. WILL it be good for modding? Sure - maybe not the same kind of simplistic satisfaction you can get from lovely packaged lighting and textures - but it will hopefully - one day - raise its profile enough to have an audience.
    But facts are facts. Right now, it is unusable as a platform. Fixes pending I assume.....?
     
  6. Petros Mak

    Petros Mak Registered

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    If your going to make such a statement, care to detail how and why its an unusable platform? I find your post very inaccurate to how rF2 is at the moment.
     
  7. Nand Gate

    Nand Gate Banned

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    Huh? Are you aware that rF2 has never before had such a massive issue with connection problems?

    It is not inaccurate, if it is right and you are simply unaware....let's call it the 'JOIN greyed-out' issue:

    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/18526-rF2-Build-494-Released/page11

    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...id-to-fix-them-race-server-admins-join-thread

    ...about as current as it gets. Read on....more than 30%+ (in my direct first-hand experience talking inside servers, 100% or 10/10 have experienced issues) are experiencing persistent (and mildly variable) connection issues - directly attributable to the latest build.

    Is rF2 awesome software? Sure is!! Is it buggered right now? Yep. Will it be fixed? Sure! When? No idea, they won't elaborate.

    I am not a hater, nor a fan boy. I have used rF2 everyday for almost 2.5 years and have participated since the Dec 2012 release. I'm' just sayin, is all.

    EDIT: I am running a Cup with around 30 drivers. Current build has ALMOST cancelled the event. Sufficient successes doing server workarounds etc alone have guaranteed it goes forth. As a 'power' user, I am miffed.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2014
  8. woochoo

    woochoo Registered

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    From a track making perspective, I'd say it's all go!! :)
    The skillz step from rF1 to rF2 tracks is pretty minimal. If you can do it for rF1 then rF2 will be fine.
    There are some extra textures needed, and familiarisation with some new shaders, and setting up the reflections (ugh :p).
    A few other things too, but nothing that can't be learned.
    I'm confident rF2 won't become a worse platform for tracks or cars, and there are a number of ways it's currently ahead of other platforms.
    I say go for it, but play the long game. A static platform will only last so long, so I hope to have the time to update Longford when new features come in. I don't mind changes that will let me make the track better :)
     
  9. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

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    I personally see absolutelly no reason why to stay with rF1, in my opinion (and i dont know if that is the case) ISI shoud slowly stop supporting and eventually even selling rF1 after they fixed everything major (i dont know if there still are any major issues) and simply focus on rF2. rF1 is dated with its technologies compared to rF2, so its like if you would be asking wether to stay at Win XP or switch over to Win 7 (Please note that i purposely did not say Vista to Win8, but that has quite deeper reason, including Microsofts marketings schemes and so on)

    rF2 is currently very very good fun, i have a blast basically everytime when i get around drivers with the same driving level as me. There is currently issue with the join button, but i find sad that anybody at all immidiatelly calls it "currently unworkable and big chunk of community simply cannot play" as this issue is present only with some servers and only sometimes (admitibly, most of the times) but that is a very very temporary issue that has occured with release of the latest build (6 days ago)
    The ISIs Senior programmer yesterday already tweeted that he commited a fix for that for internal build which (if will be stable) will be released to us as soon as stated stable. Could be even today, could be tommorow.

    For me the only reason i see that players still have not switched over from rF1 to rF2 is because rF2 is more HW demanding, but that is of course the price that comes with more accurate physics that has a lot more features and those features are still beign developed and improved as we speak. Also Jeremy Miller (already mentioned senior programmer) has also made a cheeky mention of 64bit rF2 in progress

    If the modders that made so many magnificant mods for rF1 will switch over to rF2, than the community will too, as many many stayed with rf1 also because there is so much richer choice of communitys cars and mods
     
  10. FatCity

    FatCity Registered

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    Pretty much says it all, totally agree, after all that's why we use it isn't it.
     
  11. Valter Cardoso

    Valter Cardoso Registered

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    I think visuals have an important role when modders choose where to work on. Some also like the visual aspect of their creations and presently even if rf2 its the best in most of the features, its not the best in that.
    Im sure that some rf1 modders would first choose rf2 as obvious platform but some much probably wont due to the fact that some recent titles offer a much better graphical platform.
    In the end, some wich prefer more technical modding will go on rf2, some wich prefer the visuals will go on other direction.
     
  12. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    That is an understandable point Valter and I can see why you make it. However, there's always the however...

    If one builds a scratch made track, and builds everything properly up to rF2 spec, you really can achieve beautiful results. I drove the
    Asetto Corsa Silverstone yesterday, I think the ISI Silverstone one can fully match if not go over it in terms of visuals. Both look simply really
    really good if you ask me and I don't see anything in there which you can't do in the one engine or the other.

    The problem is that people sometimes do crappy conversions to rF2 and complain that it still looks 1998/GPL/rFactor1, I like to think, what
    the heck do you expect? If you want something good, put the dam time in it! It's no wonder 99/100 of the 'instant gratification/5 minutes of
    empty fame/stolen content' conversions are abandoned after two weeks!

    Crap in == Crap out

    Totally fed up hearing all the excuses which I think are laughable, mostly for tracks. The more I hear them the more I think the ones who
    make them have no interest in modding anymore and hide themselves behind their excuses, or have no clue how to actually build something
    for any platform. Building something for Unreal, pCars, AC, doesn't instantly make it pretty! If you have the source, you can export to every engine
    you wish without problems. That some people only want to re-use old content and blame rF2 for its lacking visuals, well I don't know what to think
    anymore.

    /Rant over
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 4, 2014

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