Is official rF2 forum already dead for S397?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by vittorio, Aug 11, 2020.

  1. AMillward

    AMillward Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,707
    Likes Received:
    1,630
    please give us this track, fix this, add this is fine, because they’re different things, but the same copy-paste physics things over and over again just gets repetitive and people will be less willing to respond.
     
    Remco Majoor likes this.
  2. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    2,546
    It is easy to throw away a hour or even two in forum and then not have it to pay off, especially if trying to make a very well composed and thought out post or a few.. And then there wouldn't be guarantee that an answer would be properly understood and well taken. I guess developers has chosen work speak instead of words, besides that there are also roadmaps.

    I wrote this post for few minutes and it is completely pointless as well as to read it, I could have done something useful.
     
  3. TJones

    TJones Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    163
    The reasons behind ongoing complain about physic stuff, are they never really taken much care of!
    While there is progress in other sections of the game like new/updated tracks (S397 really shine here), major car brands, good progress in graphics, and recently multiplayer, not to forget new UI.
    However, there's still no dynamic track temperature, no tire damage or puncture, no aquaplaning. No proper transmission simulation like proper gear synchronization/clutching, drivetrain flexing/backlash. And so on ....
    Races against AI are often pointless because of their strange pitstop strategy, and/or massive tire degradation.

    IMO rF2 should be the innovator in vehicle physics, like it was years ago, and not falling behind competitors.
     
    vittorio, DrivingFast and avenger82 like this.
  4. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    2,546
    Absolutely. Not all of those things are all down to core of rF2. Not sure about AI pitstop strategy, but their tire degradation is adjustable by the physics maker of a car.

    I wouldn't bet on the aquaplaning. It might simply not have foundation needed, but maybe... IDK... I have made a thread once about how IMO and why IMO track surface roughness parameter doesn't work correctly, but I decided not to repeat it over and over again and then getting angry that "being ignored", I decided to wait for big stuff like UI and comp system getting stable, before I speak such stuff again aiming to get it into attention of devs.
     
  5. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,194
    Likes Received:
    1,566
    That's true but people need to observe patterns more. Here is one: 4 years, graphics not finished (seems to be close, hallelujah), UI not finished, comp system not finished, content never released with 100% of what the sim can do.
    There is something to be learned here when you think about answering or posting the same questions over and over ;) seems like even the devs got it lol :D
     
  6. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    1,070
    What is most unfortunate is that the area in which rF2 really seemed very above all these competitors for so many years (global realism and FFB, etcetera) seems less and less to be :

    - At the same time objectively (ACC ?)
    - At the level of the impression that the majority of simracers have of rF2.

    rF2 is more and more legitimately attacked in this specific area (in addition to many other legitimate areas than its user friendly, UI, graphics, ambient sounds, AI, online, racing rules, the bugs, etcetera etcetera etcetera) which sincerely "saddens me" (in quotation) as a fan, but in addition rF2 undergoes a bashing everywhere (RD, youtube, all forums, ...).

    What a waste I find.

    I love rF2, but it's getting harder and harder to defend it.
     
    jlnprssnr and dylbie like this.
  7. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    485
    Well, i should have formulated as generic as you did with “please update the realism and physics" to understand better, like:
    * please give use more tracks
    * please give use more cars
    * please update the graphics
    * please fix bugs
    * please finish new UI
    * please give us competition system

    And as I often said, for me the most unique selling proposition of rF2 is its amazing physics, tire model and FFB, additionally RealRoad, day/night cycle, dry/rain racing, new laser scanned tracks... which all adds up to better "realism and physics". For me its hard to understand that some but always the same people at official forum and discord don't "allow" users to discuss about "realism and physics"

    The only thing I can imagine why that is so is, cause "realism and physics" at least for me is a lot harder problem with a lot more knowledge needed to even discuss about it. Everyone can discuss about new tracks, new cars, better looking graphics, UI or competition system. But not about realism and physics. Its like the old problem: "The bike shed and the power plant", or also known as "Law of triviality" [1]. In case someone is interested.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  8. Filip

    Filip Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2017
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    774
    No, fix this and fix that also got repetitive. Example: dozens of offline players in this and RD forum mentioned same AI problems several times. What do these people expect after many years and hundreds of same reports?
    They are polluting the forums with boring repetitive posts and no wonder they get no response.
     
    vittorio likes this.
  9. TJones

    TJones Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    163
    I like to give some feedback on this, in the hope it gets fixed. :)
    One of the issues about pit stop strategy is, if you set wet-race condition for the start of the race. Then AI cars usually start on dry tires, because while it start to rain, track is still dry. After one or two laps, track gets more wet, they finally come in to put on their wet tires. IMO AI should "know" the same weather forecast as human driver. It's a well known issue for quite a while.

    That tire degradation thing was with Porsche GT3 car at Nürburgring 24hr config of the track. As you said it's most likely a car problem. Length was six laps, AI strength was at about 92-93%, aggression at 30%. I was on soft tyres while Ai on hard, i won that race because all AI cars had to change tires. After the race i took a look using rF2 Log Analyzer. AI tire degradation was up to four times as high as mine, that with harder tire. With quite low (92/93%) strength they drove a bit slower in the GP section of the track, but at Nordschleife part they where very fast, very aggressive, often overdriving the car, sometimes loosing control and crash.

    Edit: I mixed something up, was GT3 not a Cup car.
    Edit 2: Attached XML file of the race
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    mantasisg likes this.
  10. Mitch9

    Mitch9 Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    41
    On the fix this, give us that subject, while posting about it is important to let the studio know what people want, I think there´s a couple things we could always be more considerate of before posting:

    1. the roadmap, where s397 have stated that they´ll work on the ai and yellow flag issues, plus some drivetrain physics stuff AFTER the graphics updates, new ui (and competition system, presumably) are in place.
    Now I obviously dont know how the studio works, but I´d imagine that they can´t work on everything at once and a physics update is something you´d want the relevant staff to give their full attention to.
    So anyone is free to ask for an improvement here and a fix there, but I wouldn´t expect that to swerve the priorities of the studio or make the development of a feature happen overnight.

    2. spamming the wish list section doesn´t help anyone; better condense your wishes into a few posts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    Remco Majoor and AMillward like this.
  11. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    485
    Developer ressources aren't like a fluid you can put into a glass to get it full. Developers have different skills, like programming skills and these do UI and competition system, others have modelling skills doing new tracks, cars and improve rF2 graphics core technologies. Others (probably only a few cause IMHO most difficult or at least rare) have physics skills doing car physics and improve rF2 physics core technologies.

    EDIT: but reading your post again, you didn't say anything fundamental different. Well, not exactly, the physics guys don't have to wait to implement drivetrain AFTER graphics updates and new UI and competition system are in place. These are different skills and different teams/developers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    avenger82 likes this.
  12. vittorio

    vittorio Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    485
    after a 2nd thought, i have to correct myself. physics guys need programming skills to implement drivetrain logic in rF2 physics core, or more likely need guys with programming skills (which are busy implementing new UI and competition system). so nothing different @Mitch9 was saying and I was thinking.

    I agree, before spamming the wish list (I took a look at forum wish list section and understand now, 7/10 latest requests coming from one person and 6 of those 7 requests with 0 replies) , better listen to S397 roadmap or change something to not spam the wish list (like keep a summary thread of wishes or ...)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2020
  13. Mitch9

    Mitch9 Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    41
    They´re a small team, so I can imagine even the specialists having a couple of roles within the studio but who knows. Well s397 knows and, comming back to the original topic, that´s something they could answer just to know what´s up.
     
  14. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,639
    Likes Received:
    1,070
    The fact that it is a small team is undeniable and largely justifies the long progress.

    However, while being a small team, other priorities and choices could have been made 4 years ago.

    rF2 would be different today.

    Maybe better, maybe less well who knows ?
     
  15. Haris1977

    Haris1977 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    37
    I understand that S397 is a small team working on this game. What i do not understand is why they choose to bring up new things (cars, tracks) without fixing some small issues that currently exist. E.g the fact that some cars seem to ignore stabilize horizon settings (cockpit is too bumpy). Those cars are the mcr 2000, metalmoro mr18 and the puma 052. I think a guy said that is smth with the camera settings and not about stabilization.

    This is - of course - a very small portion of the issues that still exist. There are some smaller ones and some bigger ones. I think they should focus primarily there..
     
  16. mantasisg

    mantasisg Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    2,546
    @Haris1977 Probably because that content is not theirs, it comes from Reiza. S397 would never bring interesting stuff like Formula Vee or Puma cars...

    PS. Discord is dead too (not speaking about devs attention, but in general), it is now about flight simulators. I guess enthusiasm about cars is taking holidays recently.
     
  17. Will Mazeo

    Will Mazeo Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2015
    Messages:
    2,194
    Likes Received:
    1,566
    Well, that's normal. There isn't that much topics to talk about in simracing before things get repetitive (I mean between old members), especially when there is no content or necessary updates released in this platform. Yeah, stock cars are cool but little following here, especially with offline broken. Plus car people are usually interested in planes.
    And Discord is mostly the same as always, the general chat keep it alive. Back then they wanted to keep it exclusive to rF2 talk, it'd die in a week.
    Influx of new members coulg keep it going but seeing Steam Charts rF2 didn't go anywhere after the "pandemic hype" was gone.
    The next thing that could keep traffic going would be online racing, but for that leagues would need to move their forums to this one, unlikely.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2020
  18. Haris1977

    Haris1977 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    37
    Maybe yes, cause those cars i mentioned be4 belong to this pack (reiza car pack). But as a customer i don't care who is the owner of the pack. I want to be fixed. And it should have been fixed by now, but reiza is focused on AMS2 atm..

    I really hope they will fix it :)
     

Share This Page