Guys i have some wrong feeling with ff when using the honda civic. Is there any known bug or something that i should know? My wheel is the CSW.
It has a lot of torque steer and quite exaggerated caster. I turn the overal ffb effects down with my fanatec, but wouldn't say they were reversed in the civic.
I felt the exact same when i first tried the civic but it now feels completely normal. This car just has a lot of grip at the front + a lot of torque to allow the car to feel like this. Quite different from the clio which just understeers and has an ffb response more like a rear wheel drive.
Have a car with more torque and bhp than this in real life that is fwd. I have only ever felt torque steer past a slip angle and pull inwards when driving on ice or wet Tarmac past the limit of grip from the tires. Not to disagree with the feeling, but was a little shocked. From what I understand a few chaps down at the drags and track days have turbo & supercharged type r road cars and explained the torque steer to be quite extreme. A common theme is that I am a fanatec user and so are others that are complaining of excessive torque steer feeling. I have also gotten used to it, but still feels it exhibits a characteristic of too little grip. But what would I know I put trust in ISI to accurately model the information. I also feel another issue is the speed feeling translated from the game is not presenting me with accurate feeling due to perception. (Maybe my computer is slow) the little replay window looks more accurate which hints this is the case !
You don't just have to go past the limits of grip, you can also go past the limits of the suspension and roll, in keeping the tire down. If your right front wheel is off the ground while turning, your wheel will pull to the right because of that as well.
No rF player has better accesss to information, data and references than ISI does, they simply do know it better, so you definetly dont make a mistake but trusting them in it
I dont see anything wrong in that video, would you be so kind and instead of posting a video without a single word saying why are you posting, also share your reason of doing so please?
Couldn't agree more, I just don't see many posts that see it like this. Too much, I know better seems to be exhibited. I do wonder though, if the fanatec does feel different in the respect of torque steer feedback.
Actually, you can observe this effect in Clio as well, only with less magnitude. Manufacturers of street cars put a lot of effort into eliminating this effect. Some even go as far as electronic differential control or artificial reduction of engine torque in lower gears. It's all for the comfort of the driver, but in racing, performance has priority over comfort. I don't agree this is a rule, but usually this is the case. The problem is people's attitude. Many people think something's "obviously wrong" or "impossible" if it doesn't fit well with their experience or knowledge. I try to be more open minded and when I see something odd, something I don't understand, I start looking for answers. In case of torque steer it's quite interesting, actually Think of how does steering work in a car - especially how the suspension is built and where is the vertical axis of rotation for front wheels. Look at example below - actual steering axis for this wheel is not exactly at the tires center of symmetry: So what happens when you start accelerating? Well, it's obvious - front wheel wants to move forward. But the weight of the car is attached to this wheel and is holding this wheel back - from inside. So as soon as I start accelerating, front wheel will tend to turn inwards - because it's being held back from inside. At the same time, the other wheel turns in the opposite direction. Both forces balance themselves because wheels are connected by steering system, so they simply can't turn in opposite directions. Sooo... nothing happens.... unless you unbalance this system This unbalancing may be caused by construction of car (differences in length or angle of drive shafts, uneven weight distribution, misalignment), tires (different radius caused by pressure or tread depth) or the driving itself (lateral weight transfer while cornering, suspension compression). A sample scenario - we turn to the right. Weight transfer causes the left front wheel to have high load, offering a lot of grip, while right wheel has low grip. Now we start accelerating - left wheel will tend to turn right, while right wheel will tend to turn left. Since left wheel has higher load it will transfer more torque from engine to the ground and therefore "win" with right wheel. The whole steering system will follow what left wheel is doing and that's turning to the right. So as we turn to the right and accelerate, our steering system will tend to turn even more to the right. Keep in mind that I'm no expert. I've only learned about torque steer when Honda's behavior in rF2 got me intrigued, but this explanation seems logical when you consider suspension design. Of course you can design suspension that will act differently. The key is the difference between wheel steering axis and center of tire. Well, we learn all the time
Thanks for the break-down K Szczech, makes sense. Maybe they should build a fwd with the wheel steering axis on the outside.
Car manufacturers have many different solutions to this. The point is to have the steering axis exactly at tire base center: You can achieve positive or negative scrub radius, resulting in different behavior. Here's an old documentary about torque steer. At 9:15 they show what I described above. The documentary itself is a bit of a training material for car mechanics, pointing them towards possible causes of torque steer occurring in road cars while accelerating in straight line. So they focus on small imperfections in car's symmetry, rather than talk about what's happening while cornering. I believe it's all about tire load when cornering. If your car doesn't have much torque, both wheels will be able to transfer it, but if you have a lot of torque and you corner hard, differential will distribute more torque to outside wheel (more loaded) and therefore cause high imbalance.
Do you remember that quote, from before rF2 beta came out "rFactor 2 may break too many barriers" ? Majority of people are used to resistance, not pull on a steering wheel. The problem is - many people will simply think that "game is broken" and internet will be full of such opinions. ISI is often facing such unjustified criticism and all for the sake of creating a proper simulator, which makes me appreciate their efforts. So I guess it's only fair if we share what we know and help people understand why things work the way they do. FFB in Williams F2 is still a mystery to me, though. It's and RWD car, so the cause for wheel pulling must be different. Gets me curious
The video speaks for itself and it is clear that is something wrong with FFB, in my opinion. My reason of posting this video? We are talking about this.
The only explanation I have seen (not that I understand the technicalities completely) for that, is the caster and way the car turns. When our physics engineer got the setup sheets, he assumed the setup was wrongly entered onto the sheet, so changed to what he thought. Then when Luciano tested it, they informed us the setup it had been changed to was illegal, and put it back. Apparently that brought back in the feeling you don't understand. I think, frankly, it's because the car is being setup outside of what every other car normally would be.
