Is driving without the cockpit visible possible?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 64r, May 8, 2014.

  1. 64r

    64r Registered

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    I have been thinking about setting up a better simulator then what I currently use, taking inspiration from other pro simulators, it seems quite normal to have a chassis with a projection screen along with multiple projectors. I assume that the multiple projector part is no issue for rF2, but I have not seen any examples on this forum where the cockpit interior is not shown. Below is the sort of thing I mean...

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    You can see that both examples have a chassis that the driver sits in, the simulation projects the track but does not project the car interior (in the F1 example it only projects the wheels).

    Is this possible with rF2 in its current state with the existing car models, or would it be required to build a special car model that does not have a cockpit view?

    Ideally I'd like to have something that just works, I have a spare kart chassis here that would make a good prototype with the ISI karts....

    Any thoughts or ideas (or even better examples) are welcome. Thanks
     
  2. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    For openwheelers there are standard settings where you can choose to display the wheels only, wheels+suspension only, etc. For closed cockpits it would be nice
    to be able to have an additional option to turn off the graphics of the car entirely. Alternatively, car builders maybe could provide an upgrade for the car, removing
    the cockpit visuals, but don't know if that is possible :)
     
  3. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    I assume you know about the different cockpit camera's (insert) with no-cockpit being already there, but are looking for something more suitable?
     
  4. Barf Factor

    Barf Factor Registered

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    In your plr file there is the option of Partial Cockpit View="1" // 0=normal cockpit view, 1=wheels & suspension only, 2=wheels only
    View attachment 12639
    This way you have the correct point of view from the driver's eye, without the in game cockpit
     
  5. Christian Rosén

    Christian Rosén Registered

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    I would like to have a view where my front monitor is the windscreen in tin-tops, so the only gfx showing is stripe/dirt/mirror or whatever are on the windscreen and the hood of the car outside the window. And also the same for the side monitors, where you only see whatever are on the car side windows and the mirrors. Then you can arrange the monitors in somewhat realistic positions and build your physical cockpit around them.
     
  6. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    True and accurate/realistic perspective doesn't work like that Chris. For realistic view/perspective, the camera should always be the head/cockpit cam (I.e. from the drivers eyeball position) regardless of how far away your monitor is.

    The only time it's a possible exception to arrange monitors and ingame camera positions as you suggest and for it to realistically work is if you used 3d monitors. But even then, it's unnecessary as we can tweak the 3d convergence.

    But you can still achieve the exact result you desire with the head cam position by lowering the ingame FOV to the correct and realistic value.

    To give you an idea for why it's wrong to use a camera position closer to the windscreen or side screen, imagine your in the driver seat. If you leaned closer to any windscreen (provided your not strapped in ofc...just a thought experiment) you will see more of the world because you will have increased your available line of sight to around/behind the edges of the widescreens (in the same sense that as you walk towards a window you see more if the world thought the same physically sized window). But in reality the driver sees the world from a fixed position with less line of sight around the widescreen edges. Thus, even if you place the monitors at the correct distances that correlated with cam positions that sat right on the corresponding windscreens, the perspective would not be the same as what the driver is really able to see out through the windscreens. Hope that made sense.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2014
  7. Christian Rosén

    Christian Rosén Registered

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    I dont understand why it wouldnt work? But I guess you would need like 3 "cameras" one for each window/monitor. :p
     
  8. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    I just updated my post with an explanation. Hope it makes sense. Let me know if not.

    If not, I can draw you up a diagram demonstrating that will explain it much better. But bed for now.
     
  9. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    well at least OP now has various options to play with whether its realistic or not. never knew about those plr entries. pretty cool nonetheless :)
     
  10. Christian Rosén

    Christian Rosén Registered

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    I understand that part, but I don't understand why it wouldn't work. Isn't it just to zoom in/out (the fov?) on the three windows/monitors to a decent level and leave it there? Or it should even be possible to use a head-tracker device to automatically adjust X Y Z level on each monitor and leave pitch and yaw unaltered. Kinda like this: (even though its a pinball game its a similar idea) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfphAm4vOhw
     
  11. WiZPER

    WiZPER Member

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    It won't work because you can't adjust settings per monitor, rf2 uses same for all, except side screens are automaticly angled with multiview.
     
  12. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Sorry Chris, i may have misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were saying to place the camera view on the windscreen positions and to setup the monitor positions relative to you at the correct distance. The only issue with this (if this was what you meant) is that the camera views are on the windscreens and not the driver/cockpit-cam view position. Like you said later, you can then just lower the field of view to a realistic value and (depending on how big your monitors are) you should end up with just the windscreen in view.
     
  13. Christian Rosén

    Christian Rosén Registered

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    Ok sorry I don't explain so well what I mean, but as an alternative concept to a HMD (at least in my head, hehe) it should work pretty good, and help the immersion in tin-tops, even with "static" windows/monitors (without head-tracking and zooming functions). For windscreen you could have a Samsung Curved UHD TV, lol.


    You could build (or even modify a real cockpit) and simulate any enclosed compartment with windows (ex. cars, boats, trains or planes). You would see all the physical hardware you bought/built (wheel/gear-stick/joystick/instruments) but at the same time would get the benefit from 3 monitors like they instead was 3 projectors projecting a huge image 3 meters away in a half-circle around the front part of cockpit.


    For a reality-test, when i turn my head to the right or left (yaw) up or down (pitch) in real life there are very little movements in depth space (even when i exaggerate my head-movements compared to when i sit in my sim-racing cockpit or my real car) and i rarely roll, move my body/head sideways, front/backwards, sideways or straight up/down much (X,Y,Z). So I think you could get a pretty good result as long as the monitors are fixated at whatever distance your head are from the windows/monitors.


    If your intention is to simulate an area where you can walk/stand (example locomotives or command-bridges on boats or spaceships) you would really benefit from a head-tracker device though.
     
  14. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Gotcha but it would not be right to use anything other than the drivers eye camera, regardless of how far away the monitors are placed from you.

    I'll draw up a diagram to try and explain visually why this is so. brb :p

    ok, so firstly i must apologies for the appalling handwriting and drawing, making it look like the slender man :p. I was drew it all impatiently.

    [​IMG]

    So what i've tried to draw are the two different views that you would see if you change where it is viewed from whilst maintaining the same fov. The gap in the wall is supposed to represent a window (i.e. the windscreen of a car). The solid black fov lines are meant to be the same angles in both top and bottom pictures. The dashed line in the top drawing represents the effective fov of what you can see through the window (i.e. windscreen) on the other side of the wall.

    So the point is, perspective and what you should be able see is incorrect if you use the camera view at the window (bottom pic). The realistic view is to use the driver-eye camera view and if all you want to see on your monitor is whats through the windscreen, then you just reduce the ingame fov so that the black fov lines become the same as the dashed fov lines (in the top drawing). This will achieve the same desired result you were describing whilst also maintaining the realistic and correct driver perspective who sits (as your rightly said) a fixed distance away from the windscreen(s) (i.e. the window/hole in the drawing).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 9, 2014
  15. PMC

    PMC Registered

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    I still cant see why , with the correct FOV and head tracking why what Christian is asking isn't possible , but head tracking is a must .

    FOV would be affected by head movement surely , if you move forward you see more if you look left right the image shifts left right ?
     
  16. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Why would fov be affected by head movement? fov is fixed in game and to my knowledge, trackir does not and cannot link the fov with translational movements. It just translates the camera position in game to match how much you have translated your physical head. What your talking about is that and a fov linkage, so that the ingame fov auto-adjusts depending on how close you move your head to the monitor so that you always get the correct in-game fov based on your physical distance to the monitor and based on the monitor size.

    If that's what you mean, then it's completely possible to do in practice but it's not implemented in racing sims (or at least not rf2) to allow something like trackir software dynamic access/control of the ingame fov (to the best of my knowledge). And if the software existed to allow you to do this, you would need an independent trackir for each additional monitor you use.

    But i don't think that is what chris was talking about, right?
     
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  17. PMC

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    AAH yes I didn't say it was possible in rF2 but mabe it is . I think what I was talking about was Oculus Rift type tech but without the mask and using screens instead , and FOV is affected by head movement .

    From what I can tell Chris was asking why the monitor screen cant just be the wind screen , which is some thing I had wondered , but realised that without head movement and self adjusting FOV it's not really realistic .

    Hopefully one day it can be set up as if your looking out of a wind screen .

    Maybe i'm missing something also .
     
  18. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    I gotcha, like CastAR tech. ;)

    What that's basically describing is a sort of dash-cam view, which is a camera view/perspective that's right up to the windscreens as chris describes. Then placing your monitor the same distance and direction away from you that the camera view location is from the virtual drivers head. I described with the drawing above why this is unrealistic and not sure if i can do much better to explain what i mean, though i admit that i'm really not the best at explaining things.

    If you go back to my drawing, if you wanted the monitor to only show what is through the windscreen then you decrease the ingame fov to match the dashed fov line. Then what you would see on the monitor is the small portion of the persons chest only but filling your entire screen instead of seeing the "window/hole" and the small portion of the persons chest inside of that. The reason being that from the drivers perspective, this is all he can see of the person regardless of what you set the ingame fov to. Decreasing the fov setting will just eventually show only what is only visible through the windscreen.

    Imagine standing in front of a window and then place your hands in front of you to make a hole that you can look through, but making sure its big enough so that when you look through it you can see the entire window as well. Now as you decrease the size of this hole, you will eventually reach a point where you can no longer see the window but only see what is in view through the window. That is what you must do in order achieve the effect Chris wants (the monitors to act like the view through the windscreen and nothing else) whilst maintaining realistic perspective.
     
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  19. PMC

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    No I think I understand . Basicly the camera isn't where your head is , but I would of thought that could be compensated for .

    EDIT : I think what is needed is 2 FOV's , 1 for the windscreen and one for your head maybe .
     
  20. Christian Rosén

    Christian Rosén Registered

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    Thank you for the drawing DrR1pper, you draw way better then me! I perfectly understand that problem but I don't think it matters much since you only turn your head and hence not move your head closer to the window/monitor. What is a problem though is that instead of a forward pointing camera that is split on 3 monitors you would need 3 camera views, one forward, one 90 degrees left and one 90 degrees right. If that is doable at all I haven't a clue though :)
     

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