Is a more consistent AI possible?

Setting AI below 100% I would consider cheating on myself. So the only option left would be MP. And I'm not in the least interested in that. Slow connection on my end of the line and I don't feel like I'm ready to compete with humans yet. I'm way too slow.

So it is theoretically possible to do 2:20 laps at Macau? Or is the AI cheating in terms of physics?

 

FWIW, watching the AI pedal inputs in the Skip at the 2nd to last corner at Sapang, they were stamping on the brake and throttle like a Virgil Donati drum solo. The cars were bucking and rearing like wild animals. (But to be fair, they weren't throttle braking ). So to you can't relate anything they're doing to your physics, nor that of world either.

Is there no comprehensive source of human lap times for rF2? The only purpose of iRacing for me these days is to see other people's times, which there are always lots of for any combination. Whenever I've checked rF2 Rank, there's been nothing much recent i.e. current build, I'm interested in.

I just wish the AI would learn two rules of racing:

1. Don't jump sideways in the braking zone.
2. Don't divebomb, especially when the other person's faster than you.

It's not as though they're blind like AC's.

 

AI is "cheating" in that case.
They have other grip-levels as you have (when the mod isn´t set-up correctly).
You can adjust that too, by measuring times, edit grip levels of AI in .TBC, then repack.
That´s what I do. Every day, until it´s good. The other half of day I race them.

OldHat:
This unforseen things they do makes it so believable and "human-like". I like it (and many others too!)!
I bet agression-level influences this behavior.
This sideways-jumping seem to have something to do with BLOCK-line and other lines. Don´t got it all together ´til now... maybe modder can alter this behavior too with different lines.

 

yeah you need to un-worry yourself about "cheating" as you're really not 2:20 the AI is just simply too fast, I can easily make the AI 30seconds a lap quicker than any human on some tracks, just the way it is.

1. if it's a sudden jump it could be the BLOCK line is too far away from the Fast line (in the AIW), I've noticed that sometimes. Other times I regard it as Racing....i.e. Humans do it!
2. lower aggression as peterchen says, or again regard it as Racing....i.e. Humans do it

 

I've never gone that far, the most I've done for one particular track (Bathurst) to get them "just right" was:

- Create the Offline Mod (Mix of URD & Blancpain)
- Adjust Corridors and create new BLOCK path in AIW
- Manually adjust individual Waypoints for SPEED at certain corners so the AI don't "brake" mid turn
- Check each separate AI Car can drive the track as intended (not every AI, just 1 of each car type)
- Create VEH & RCD for all 39 AI and test repeatedly (this took the longest)
- Finally actually Race them!

That took a lot of effort, obviously the Mod creation VEH/RCD could be used on other tracks so that was worth the time. It's when Tracks have niggly AIW that it can take a little while to sort out, especially if it requires a complete AIW from scratch which I tend to avoid as I can't be arsed with the Pits & Grid spots! Overall though it's worth the effort in the end

 

Forget SPEED-value! Does nothing! Have maybe something to do with predicting the turns / line, when AI is fresh and unlearned.
But even then it´s relative.
In no situation that we notice the AI takes it serious.

Corridors do only when there is really a problem because AI going wide!!
Otherwise you "steal" them freedom to learn the line and make them maybe slower than before!

In the end it don´t take so much time to measure them (what you do anyways somehow) and alter the .TBC.
After some trial and error you know how much you have to add / decal. Take 0.02-steps for the beginning.
Yes, doing Talents including VEH´s take a few hours. Never mind...

Fast path can be driven in DevMode, without affecting Pitpath, garages, spots and all this stuff.
Can only recommend to "practice" that in DevMode! Install track via Noels tool, savecopy .AIW for the case you destroy everything, learn how to drive a line.
Not thaaaat hard.
Should I write short tutorial? (is present in this forum anyways, somewhere...)

 

1 - SPEED (in the Waypoint) does do something as it worked for me...I know I used it! helped the AI go through a couple of tricky sections just fine.
2 - Corridors help the AI take curbs better or stop them from taking them too much, again at Bathurst some corridors were too close to the wall thus the AI would hit them too much, moving the Corridors in slightly prevented this issue. It didn't affect their Learning one bit.
3 - I've never needed to touch the .TBC file....yet!
4 - Yes I know Fast Path can be created without affecting Pits but sometimes I've found problems when trying to alter an already made AIW and starting from scratch was the only alternative. (constant DevMode crashing, maybe better now not tried recently)
5 - yes I know how to drive a FAST line thank you very much, unlike a lot of Track makers it seems.....
6 - the ISI tutorial is just fine, taught me everything I needed to know and I learnt more besides (SPEED value for one)

 

It'd be pretty silly in real life to do that if someone's threshold braking behind you. By definition they won't be able to swerve to avoid you. Hence the rule!
The trouble I think it's that they've got their own physics so even if they're slower over a lap, they can do crazy manoeuvres like this. It's dumber than most of what I've seen in iRacing and that can be pretty dumb.

 

Just for showing off my off-worldly driving skills
This is the 1.5 hrs session I mentioned earlier, cut into little pieces:

 

1. What you probably mean is "cheat speed". That does indeed something!
2. Better solution is to do a new, proper line, so that they aren´t going wide from the beginning...
3. Lucky you! Not much mods tested then, or driven to the end he? I for one don´t want to remember every AI-strenght value for every car-track combo.
4. Never had that. Made dozens of (half-arsed and dark-grey-) tracks. No problem. Maybe new install?
5. Hope you´re right. Yes, most trackmaker seem to struggle there...... or are too lazy as I mentioned in another thread
6. Everything? Don´t think so. If you are fine, fine. This question was more refered to Racefreak.

 

1 - maybe can't remember, either way it worked perfectly fine.
2 - the FAST path was perfectly fine bar a couple of corners, hardly worth redoing the whole thing, besides altering Corridors can have a better impact depending on the curb/wall/area the AI run into/over
3 - Not sure what you mean for the first part, for the last part I just revert to altering the Strength, doesn't take long.
4 - yeah could be, again not done it for awhile so maybe it was a buggy build, last time I did an AIW was Build 8** something
5 - they are a menace, all those hours to make the track and they can't be bothered with an AIW that'll take 6hours tops from learning to finish!!
6 - yes everything "*I*" needed to know It covers the basics perfectly well enough for anyone to create an AIW from scratch then theres the Track modders forum to aid in the process too.

 

According to Wikipedia the AI in rFactor is NOT overpowered or cheating.
Here is a REAL lap record which was set in 2013:

| '''GT Cup'''
| '''2:19.550'''
| {{flagicon|ITA}} [[Edoardo Mortara]]
| [[Audi R8 (road car)#R8 LMS|Audi R8 LMS]]
| 2013

How such times are even possible is completely unknown to me. I suck at racing.

 

Lap records are usually only achieved during ideal conditions. Right motivation, no traffic, good weather, and somewhat fresh tires.

 

You don´t understand Racefreak!
How AI behaves, or what times they do is absolutely depending on the modder who is responsible for proper AI-strengh!
I´m not the weakest driver, nore I´m the fastest. But I´ve often seen AI times with mods that are out of reality.

 

Makes sense. But is no excuse for being ten seconds slower. I usually drive alone in Macau or any practice sessions for that matter.

Yes Peter,

I understand that. But in the case of Macau it turns out to be realistic. And that really pisses me off. Because I thought I was breaking the World record!!!

 

Racefreak, don't get down on yourself. One of the best things about sim racing is the near infinite opportunities for improvement. If we were all fast out of the gate then what would there be left to do?

What is your background like? Are you familiar with the principles of vehicle dynamics and driving techniques? I can tell you from my perspective everything about sim racing changed forever once I got to the point of being able to identify near endless opportunities for improvement but I didn't get to that point quickly. It took a fair bit of skills, knowledge and experience to get me there. Now, improvement is all I care about and my potential is the only thing that is relevant; not what others are capable of.

 

Racefreak1976, in that case you need to take in some of these considerations:

- Is the RF2 track as close to the real thing as possible? some 3rd party tracks (through no fault of the maker) can be so different that seconds are lost or gained during a lap.
- Is the RF2 tracks surface relative to the real track? or are the grip levels vastly different?
- Is the 2013 track that the record was taken on a different configuration to that in RF2? (I wouldn't have a clue just a thought)

If the above is all good then look at yourself:
- How much grip have you got down? as in is there plenty of Real Road on the track? ignore the first laps of any first practice session, let the AI lay some rubber down then go play.
- Do you know the track well enough? by that I mean have you run 70-80 laps or well into the 500+laps? One thing I've learnt through my years of sim racing is to first learn the track then learn the setup.
- Practice Practice Practice, you'll get there

 

1. The track is pretty close to the real deal when compared to real onboard videos on YouTube.
2. I wouldn't know. China is pretty far away.
3. Possible but unlikely.

4. There is no visible rubber on the road surface but I'm sure it is there, because rF2 let's you feel it! (Thanks to the ffb coder whoever you are )
5. I think so. Been doing probably 200-300 laps on it.
6. Just managed to cut off 5 secs from my above mentioned time by being more daring on the long straights. (first two corners full throttle) However, there are a lot of driving techniques I never heard about. Like OldHat mentioned something about throttle braking, I have no clue what this is. A few months ago I didn't know what trail braking was until I have had the bright idea to just ask on the ISI forums. And I am sure there is still a lot more I don't know of as of now. I hear that Motec is good for analyzing your driving but I also have no clue how this stuff works. For one thing I don't even know what the suspension settings do and how they work. Like for example, How do I reduce the jumping of the car when going over curbs to a minimum and such. Don't know whether I should make the car stiffer or softer in that case.

My sim racing background is a long story. I'll keep it short.

Started with GT4. Bought a wheel (G25) and GTR2. rF1 after that and I was in heaven.
I have absolutely no idea about driving techniques other than what I have learned from experience. Vehicle dynamics is nothing more than weight shifting to me. Again no clue.

Your potential is only limited by how much stress your tires can cope with.

 

STRONGLY recommend the below video if you haven't already seen. Also, there are dozens of videos at professionalsimracing.com on this and other relevant subjects...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM

I chuckle almost every time I think about the first time I decided to study driving and racing in detail. I thought I'd just see "what this little subject of physics and driving technique is all about". LOL I could'nt believe how beautiful and complex it all is even just from a driving perspective. I was permanently hooked on it since then and never since then have I ever felt I mastered a combo or even reached my potential which is makes sim racing and endless endeavor for me which is an amazing gift.

 

Thanks. I have seen this video before and it helped me a great deal. Watching it once more isn't going to hurt.

I've recorded this lap with the telemetry bar on. Maybe some of you can hint me towards what can be done better by looking at my throttle application and braking and whatever else there is.