InsideSimRacing video in depth look at build 660

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by John, May 2, 2014.

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  1. Empty Box

    Empty Box Registered

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    Blammo.

    Oh, and ISR's posts on the iRacing forums always go the same way as this thread has. At this point, Darin has done an excellent job of pissing off a lot of the community, to the point it makes me wonder why people still care what some guy on the internet said. If you don't like the people, do it yourself, chances are you like yourself more than those people. :eek:

    Especially when the guy seemingly hasn't heard of FFB clipping - I'm pretty sure it can be done better - so do it.

    Ever think it comes down to the simple fact that rF2 is more or less dead in the public server environment?

    iRacing can sustain itself even with it's physics, because unlike any other sim out there currently it offers functional online racing of decent enough quality without joining a league. That fundamentally changes the way it should be looked at, as it is a "competitive" sim.

    Consider the existence of league mods, which offer precisely zero in the way of realism but are often used for the simple fact that it provides equal footing for everyone. If I'm racing offline, I don't want to have every car driving the same, if I'm racing online I don't mind it as it increases the competition in several cases. That said, the GPL league I used to race in had the fast guys in the slow cars and the slow guys in the fast cars, which created a fun dynamic, though many leagues do not take that approach.

    They are two different sims with two different approaches that require those two different approaches. If rF2 had more fledged out series you wouldn't have heard that comment either - consider that with the DW12 it seems we will have an Indycar that can race both road and ovals - but only one oval. While I'm looking forward to trimming out a virtual DW12 and holding on for dear life and avoiding the grey that is truly the grey now (can't wait!) - that also is "it" for the oval racing experience. It's just not fleshed out, and that was what he was getting at with his comment.

    Even online, one track and only one track will get pretty stale pretty quick. It's more content, but it's not a very "full" experience. The C6R here for example, only has a small handful of ISI provided courses it actually makes sense to race on, let alone the FISI which makes that problem even worse. You cannot look at the two in the same fashion because the way they work is different.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 3, 2014
  2. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    I don't use many different cars, but slightly different settings for each
    ( between 1.10 & 1.40 ish )

    Remember that my overall forces in the bodnar wheel is set to 33% only,
    If it was set higher ( 50 to 100% )
    Then rf2 settings would be maybe .20
    Etc

    The same reason you should be setting your t500 around 60%
    (In thrustmaster o/all forces)

    -over 36% on the bodnar becomes to aggressive on the subtle forces

    Some people loose forces if their systems working hard too
    & have to turn up ffb to compensate
    (Depending on their hardware specs & settings)

    It's not quite right to assume someone's setup is ffb clipping if they are using say 2.00 in sim ffb
    There's other factors involved
     
  3. DurgeDriven

    DurgeDriven Banned

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    lol

    That is trolling posting that much later to justify ( them ) yourself.

    Sad.


    hehehe ;)

    Must have been a backlash alright. lool
     
  4. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    Justify what? Who?
    Lool? I'm confused... :confused:
     
  5. Navigator

    Navigator Registered

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    Well, I don't know if we're still talking about the video here, but as I just watched it; I am ;)

    The whole thing comes across (to me) as some arcade racers who just layer their hands on a sim.
    Don't get me wrong; I'm not being the fanboy here. Some of you (if not all) know me as someone with the hart on his tongue; if something is wrong in my opinion, I start squealing and whining right away (working on that ;) ) and there is even a word for it now; Whiming (as my first name is Wim). So, that rules out the fanboy principle. ;)

    But for instance; saying the rear is often loose.........yes, how many racing cars do you see full on throttle through corners? The only time you can do that, is in an arcade game.
    These guys try to prove their point with:
    - driving off the line (or on completely green track) and yanking the wheel all of the sudden
    - driving into a medium speed corner (Monaco) way to fast, hoping it will oversteer (and it understeers even!)

    So; it looks like that is the way they drive normally..........
    I'm surprised they didn't wonder where the coins on the road were; if you hit them, the car goes faster :)

    All joking aside; I don't own any other racegame and don't know how they drive, but it looks to me these guys try to compare something that is to difficult (for them) to drive with something that is way to easy to drive.
     
  6. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    This was my thoughts exactly when I watched it.
     
  7. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Have you ran the wheelcheck.exe programme to confirm that increasing your bodnar past 33% caused non-linearity and induces wheel-side ffb clipping (like for the g25/27, T500)?

    Have you tried running your 1.1-1.4 with the pedal overlay plugin to confirm it's ffb clipping?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2014
  8. Easton

    Easton Registered

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    Tim look at it this way, this is sort of a review of their video by members here. Yes it needs to be constructive but in the end even ISR have faults and I think they know that. As long as you are improving on what you improved last week, last month or even last year rf2 is on the right track and everyone will take notice.
     
  9. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    Like I said, I don't watch this show anymore, but after this thread I did watch some of the video. A lot of it sounds like those 2 making excuses on why they suck at car control. They can't keep the rear end in check.... so obviously it's the game. I have never had any particular problems with the rear end of these cars (not more than other sims) and when I race with someone who does have issues- it's because they are not very good (yet). After hearing Gangi whine about the rear end of the cars a bunch of times, I just turned the video off. I watched his driving and TBH, it was not good.

    Of course a lot of what he whines about is right- rF2 is not perfect. However, saying that rF2 costs about $50/year or you can buy the lifetime shows that there was no show prep done. It was obvious that he hadn't actually delved into the modding scene at all and really is basing that the modded tracks are "ok" on impressions of a limited number of tracks. There is a lot of misinformation based on an incomplete understanding of the sim. Some is right on the money- too much camber in stock setups, stock setups are not good in general, the modding scene is a fraction of what it was with rF1 etc. Bt they should be ashamed of putting out a video like that with so little information and so little show prep.

    Who was that other guy and where is Shaun Cole?
     
  10. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    hiya

    I do use the pedal overlay plug-in but I trust my own judgement more
    ( no disrespect to the plug in -I think it's very good)
    clipping on ffb is it's very obvious to me as a set of audio speakers turned up to loud & forces distorting ....it's a very obvious thing + to know the difference through feel alone I feel is an important thing, this will also lead to more ffb enjoyment & a greater level of " being tuned in " ( hope I'm explaining this well lol )

    one should use lower ffb & gradually increases it to the point of clipping ( do this a few times ) then the penny drops it's very easy to recognise ffb definition & detail and the point in which it distorts, best not rely on a plugin
    in my case the plugin actually shows it's well within the clipping level -but I wouldn't really care if it showed the apposite as I trust my own tests more
    ( again no disrespect to the plugin -I use it really to confirm pedal min- max ),
    the bodnar wheel has a lot of power .....way more than is needed for sim racing,
    & needs to be turned down ( in the bodnar profiler ) to around 33% for best results - the point where the subtle fine forces are subtle fine forces -as I suggested to you with your t500 is best at around 60% a few months ago -same thing

    I'm quite sensitive to ffb & my mind tunes into it extremely closely -which is why I spent out for a servo based wheel,
    another reason why I favour rf2 over other sims too , the ffb is excellent

    although I use a different type of system in my ffb ( a servo as oppose to a motor ) I believe the above applies to any ffb wheel

    p.s I still have a collection of ffb wheels as well as the bodnar, frex / t500 & various Logitech wheels (I plan to sell them off cheap as fed up with them laying around!)

    I used to test things with different ones, but not now I just stick to the bodnar now that I'm fully use to it, I will not be buying the simexperience one as I'm very happy now ( at long last ) with my present hardware
    ( although I will have access to one ...just to have ago ! )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2014
  11. Daytona 675

    Daytona 675 Registered

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  12. Tony H

    Tony H Banned

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    Imo the review, or shallow look rather, just seemed to come across as very amateurish. Don't watch them often, actually liked it better with Shaun, yrs ago....
    btw Guy, SHaun's over here, new show soon, maybe he will eventually do an rF2 review, more indepth hopefully.
     
  13. Tony H

    Tony H Banned

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    lol beaten to it.
     
  14. Adrianstealth

    Adrianstealth Registered

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    the more sim racing gets coverage the better for sim racing, it sets it apart from other PC based activities

    I hope the sim pit is successful , as well as ISR continues to be
     
  15. C3PO

    C3PO Registered

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    I like the banter on ISR - works well and keeps it informal and quite entertaining. What I didn't like was the choice of content which failed, I feel, to give a broad representation of what the sim has to offer. Indeed, some of the points are fair enough, but others could have been corrected had information been requested. For example, with the graphics rF2 looks gorgeous at 0800 in the morning - or even 1830 - with a grid full of GT-R cars at Silverstone. Absolutely valid to pick out the "bad" - but only fair to highlight the best aspects of the sim too.

    The piece I'd like to see them do with rF2 - as has been done by a real life race engineer in rF1 - is to compare telemetry between the real and the virtual car at the same track, real and virtual. Surely that is the best piece of data from which to make judgement about the fidelity or accuracy of a sim. It would take a fair bit of effort to work, but entirely do-able with that effort and it would be a great piece of journalism, whatever it throws up.
     
  16. Rich Goodwin

    Rich Goodwin Registered

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    The only banter I heard was Darin saying something and the other guy saying "Yeah" or "sure".
     
  17. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    Talking Sim, people's view usually is very subjective. Especially, those two guys might have played too much other games on the stationery rig so that they got their norm feels on grip and handling, on which they tried to talk or review. Their views on rFactor 2 on this matter are far from truth IMHO.

    Objectively speaking, even for rFactor 1, the rF cars' grip and handling are very accurate:
    http://drracing.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/how-close-is-close-enough/
    the grip (L-g) is about > 95% accurate in comparison with real car and real track at same entry and exit speeds:
    http://drracing.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/lat-g-blog.jpg

    rFactor 2, I feel even better than rFactor 1:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwPi_qzXhJU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdDoIUsF2rA

    After trying all other "Sims" on my motion rig, I came a solid conclusion that rFactor 2 is truly the best and shall be called "Sim" indeed.
     
  18. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    Shaun was always the 'sim racer' at ISR and Darrin was the host(mouth piece) so its little wonder that the video is more or less just another filler for the show to (poorly I might add) try and balance the overall genre coverage of sims and simply lacks RF2 understanding. I bet Shaun will be reading all theses comments and would almost guarantee a much more in depth and un biased piece on rf2 once his show begins, it would be his chance to immediately gain a following of rf2 fans and those fence sitters who genuinely have interest in proper racing sims . Im looking forward to his interpretation and wish SP all the best.
     
  19. eltidi

    eltidi Registered

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    I think people are taking this way out of proportion. Sorry but all the ranting doesn't do much for me, the guys have posted the video, you didn't like it move on, no need to waste precious time ranting about it. I think the personnal attacks about a guy you don't really know are just juvenile, he is not a an arcade racer he has been racing even before rfactor 1 and puts competitive lap times in iracing.

    Anyway i think he made some valid points, The graphics are outdated I think We can all agree that this not the state of the art in graphics in pc. Dx 12 is around the corner bringing a much needed low level api to reduce cpu overhead yet the engine is in DX9 wich for me is quiet strange. Specially knowing that this title is supposed to be supported a lot of years. I hope they just wanted to focus on the core racing before polishing the graphics and will move to a DX12 when it comes out, if this gonna last many years in the future it certainly need more work.

    The licensing is better in the other titles, they have more high profile brands and tracks out of the box.
    The game is just not friendly to beginners, you have to invest a lot of time and effort to actually enjoy it.

    I don't agree about the grip in the cars, I think this title has a great feel in the wheel. The front wheel drive cars have a good out of the box setup, the rear wheel need improvement.

    Anyway I think the sim community is really small, I we should be fighting each other less, it's just a waste of time.
     
  20. Navigator

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    @ Eltidi; I think we're not ranting on about the guys who did the review (well, some are too a bit) but you may see it as a review on a review.
    That's exactly what happens here; we are reviewing their video.

    How long he drives is no issue; it depends on what you drive more.
    Let's say iRacing is arcade (no, I'm not saying that) and he puts in good lap times for 20 years......... now he steps in the real simulator at the McLaren house; he might think the one from McL is way off!

    That is just my personal taste and I am allowed to ventilate that, just as they took the liberty to give their personal taste on a product.
     
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