Information Level

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mibrandt, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    have been reading a lot of posts the last couple of days. There seems to be a lot of frustration about the general progress and also the newest build. Many feel like its always 3 steps forward 2 steps back and that half-baked stuff is being released all the time.

    I really think that a lot this can be prevented by a more open and detailed communication level from the developers ISI.

    In my opinion all of us here have the same goal - to have the most amazing sim that is solid and flawless. (I think already RF2 has come a long way.)

    I consider all of the Beta users as investors in this project. And I think the information level to all of us investors is pretty inadequate at this point.

    I think ISI should inform their investors about their plans for this project in a open and detailed manner....

    :::What is being worked on at the moment
    :::what are the plans for the next build
    :::If you release an unfinished rain effect it would be good to mention when you plan for it to be better / maybe even what you aim for as an end result
    :::When will RF2 go "non-beta" I dont even know if it is Beta still? :eek:)

    Im sure they have these plans made and I think that it is important to share them with the rest of us. It would prevent a lot of trouble.

    The more info you provide up front - the less questions you have to answer afterwards.
     
  2. Barf Factor

    Barf Factor Registered

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    Yes I would love to know what they are working on currently, what they will focus on next, etc. I understand that different members of the team are working on different things, experimenting and testing things that we may not get to try yet, but I would love to know about it anyway.
     
  3. Nibo

    Nibo Member

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    Absolutely agree.

    But, I think ISI`s position is different. ISI staff, excuse me if I`m wrong, but from what I read - ISI does not view us as investors (they do not need investment, at least Tim wrote so earlier). They view this as they allow us to access rF2 development builds for money or for prepaying rF2.

    I do not like it, and I think this attitude must change. Because for 3-6 month this is acceptable, but for a second year and with no clear time-line when this will end - not acceptable. And this is starting to show in latest posts in a forum.

    Time between builds is to large, changes in builds are to small, almost all features are unfinished, and worst of all, we in complete darkness as customers. We do not know at which stage physics is, real road, weather, what is working, what is not. Replays are in bad quality, UI is underdeveloped, online code somehow worse than rF1, collision bugs, warp lags... I flew up in a sky in last nights league race, because the car I was following suddenly warped to my location, don`t remember this happennig in rF1 ever.

    Just today in a random thread ISI tester posted that apparently tires have heat history now, and once overheated do not return to original state, i.e. vulcanizing. Why this was not mentioned in a release logs??? What sort of super secret info is this?

    We just know rF2 will be in continuous development. Which is good by itself, but only when some basic set of features is finished and working well, allowing for leagues and modders to start.
     
  4. ProTraX

    ProTraX Registered

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    +1
     
  5. PRC Steve

    PRC Steve Registered

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    We are not investors, We are end users of a product in constant development.
    This is not pCars where they release everything in daily/weekly builds. Regardless if its totally broken tracks/cars drive like ****.
     
  6. DmitryRUS

    DmitryRUS Registered

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    Too much isn't pleasant to me from these assemblies. A certain emphasis isn't present in one of areas. Physics, graphics etc.
    On level visual lags behind on несоклько years. The physics, can be good, but not in everything. Lot of plans and weak realization.
    My opinion, big mistake in the technology concept
    1) RealRoad.
    2) HDR (multiplying a color palette instead of light reflection)
    3) The confused and very difficult system of a moding.
    4) The crude product, than, doesn't differ from the first screenshots, 2-3 summer prescription.

    Modern only system requirements which don't justify itself.

    I was mistaken looking at plans and ISI promises in 18 months a dough beta.
    3 cars and 1 track would be what to adjust a kernel of all engine enough.

    And all as very small number of people on servers which are divided by different assemblies of racing series.

    rFactor1 was the best in own way, and remains to this day.
    The ideal combination would be rFactor1 graphics + shadows from rFactor2 + Physics of rFactor2 - HDR
    And technologically other principle of work of RealRoad.

    Tim will protect a product is its work, he is the excellent guy, but only it is answerable for all team which develops.
    And that us don't enter badly that in кус put at least the weekly report or the blog.
    And how many people work over a product? - it I think would explain many questions.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2013
  7. osella

    osella Registered

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    Don't be silly, if you think 15 months after first beta release ISI is going to change its ways, you are naive.

    In the next 15-45 months we will receive half working builds every 6 weeks, just like it has been until now, with no communication whatsover.

    But one day rf2 will shine, just like rf1 is still shining now, but there's still looong way ahead us.
     
  8. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Although I agree we could do with a sort of feature freeze, I think there something which bothers me way more...

    Nibo, you are talking about ISI's attitude. That whole sentence summarizes what is going in the wrong direction to me. The last couple of weeks it really seems the majority of the community feel like they are employing ISI somehow, demanding full transparency, new builds, fixes all over, new cars, new tracks, it's all over the place. When we do get new stuff, it gets bashed down the very next minute, only for the whining for new content to start all over again.

    We are a customer, ISI is the supplier, deal with it. They do their business as they want, and unless we are suddenly all promoted to big time investors or shareholders this will not change. Who dome some of the people think they are telling ISI what to do or not to do...

    In the Netherlands we have a saying that is freely translated as, 'treat a customer like a king, when he behaves as such'. Past weeks the majority is behaving like spoiled whining brats and in no means the behavior someone would expect from a community granted early access to a product we all would like to see blow every other sim out of the water.

    Now I don't care what comments I get on this, but some posts or topics I see just make me feel emberassed, and it takes a lot for that to happen to me...
     
  9. deBorgo83

    deBorgo83 Registered

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    A giant +1 for you, wgeuze.
     
  10. tjc

    tjc Member

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    + many wgeuze...

    I`ve stated similar thoughts myself in other threads...

    I really couldn`t believe it when, on the day b198 was released, I read one post from someone who`s post in general was one of disappointment about b198 but his last sentence was "Really can`t wait for the next build"

    Sums it all up really...
     
  11. privatebrian

    privatebrian Registered

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    Well said, i sometimes wonder if the builds are rushed out to keep some people quiet...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 5, 2013
  12. Nibo

    Nibo Member

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    I will say this, if I didn`t care about rF2, I would not be writing anything on this forum. I do not demand any new content.

    Also I can not and didn`t tell or command something to ISI. I post only my opinion or suggestion. I try to choose my word carefully and do not use foul language. I can only hope some of it will be adopted by developer in some form. Its their choice to read, to acknowledge or to delete my posts.

    As an example. Initially ISI announced, that there will be only $40 payment (don`t remember exact number) + $12 yearly fee. I and some others suggested to include one time payment aka lifetime option. And some days later Gjon posted a thread where he wrote "some suggested this, I like the idea". You see?

    This is an open forum. People are posting many offtopic stuff on this forum, joking, speaking about other games/sims/soft. Why can not some of us voice direct opinion of the product?

    If you can not stand this posts, ignore them. Or I can tell you the same - deal with it.
     
  13. ForthRight

    ForthRight Registered

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    I agree it would be nice to feel as though we were more 'involved' with the development of rFactor2 (and kept up to date with what is planned for the future), but this has been discussed many times - it is very unlikely to change.

    And I admit to being disappointed with certain features which are sometimes released in such an early state they are barely useful. At the same time if they didn't release these features early a lot of us would be complaining about having to wait so long for them.

    It clearly takes a lot of time to make these things. Assetto Corsa released it's tech demo, but there's still no sign of the 'real' demo, nevermind the actual release of the sim.

    The saving grace for ISI (in my opinion) is that they already have the best physics engine completed - it is done as far as i'm concerned it's that good, and they already have more impressive features than any of the competition (such as dynamic weather, real road, AI racing, time of day etc). Some of these features still need work, but rFactor 2 is the only modern sim which has them all today.

    On top of that I would say this sim has the potential to look as good as anything else out there, at least from the cockpit view. Driving the Marussia F1 around Poznan with everything maxed out it is a very impressive looking sim.
     
  14. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    You are not the entire community, and I didn't treat you as such :)

    That is indeed a good example of what can happen if stuff is communicated properly!

    Agree very much in almost every point, except for one. Of course there will always be things people don't agree with. Thing is you can communicate that in different ways. Providing constructive feedback would be ideal, foaming at the mouth screaming a bit less.

    Indeed, I do the ignoring part most of the time, once in a while I find myself unable to stay silent though.
     
  15. pay2021

    pay2021 Registered

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    Agree with wgeuze, sudden all people demands what they think should be rf2, imagine if this happen in the time of rf1, we never get rf1 has we know.
     
  16. deak1944

    deak1944 Guest

    PLUS one!
     
  17. 1959nikos

    1959nikos Registered

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    LOLOL it is like that even before game was released, it goes quiet for some days, next there is screeming again and so on.

    btw, I realised that if this forum quiets down, that would mean nobodys interested anymore.
     
  18. Guy Moulton

    Guy Moulton Registered

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    I've said it before, I'll say it again. I'd much rather have a completed platform with no content than have a half completed platform with half completed content. they have some OK mods and this RC car thing and a half completed platform. Take guys off making mods and put them on completing the game. I know people say that one doesn't affect the other- OK, then hire people to work on completing the game. Many hands make light work and no one can convince me that more people working on the base game won't complete it faster.

    Modders will provide the content but they are shying away right now because the game is half done and there's no time frame for it to be finished.
     
  19. privatebrian

    privatebrian Registered

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    But Guy isn't that abit like getting a plumber to do an electricians job?
     
  20. MaD_King

    MaD_King Registered

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    +1000, ISI need to be more transparent now, because time passing and confidence is less and less good because of lack of clear communication.
    We are not child and understand there is bugs (and see them, and it's normal for beta), now we need to know the plan and progress (already asked several time).
     

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