Indy car and IMS Now Available

I've posted yesterday, to say thank you to everyone who worked theyre butts off at ISI. Obviously i wanna do that again :p but i also have a few (minor) bugs/questions i want to put down here ;

When racing the AI, the majority (say 8/10) dive into the pits on the last lap of the race (on the 2014 roadcourse)

While watching replays, some parts of the car go transparent, the air-box becomes "see-trough" and also the fuel "hookup point" (or whatever you call that :p ) becomes "see-trough"

For the questions, do you have the intention to "expand" your templates? What i mean by that, will you release the template for the new helmet model and the "number badge" on the steering wheel? And are the driver suits still the same as the old ones or will you (hopefully) have a new one out for that as well?

Thanks in advance :)
 
Empty Box said:
I'm going to say it and you guys will hate me for it : the oval in the DW12 is just bad.
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Hate you ? :)
Hardly even if you compare rF2 to Forza ..........like be fair dinkum. lol

Sounds like you in a dilemma ?


So mate, my advice, enjoy sims, don't waste another moment talking about or lapping something is bad......... life is too short. ;)

I bloody wouldn't, that is for sure. :)



Avoid vexations to the Spirit.
 
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William David Marsh said:
I am really enjoying the car, but I just have one minor gripe. I've noticed the front end is modeled incorrectly...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/cm/roadandtrack/images/wO/game-changer-dallara-dw12-honda-2.jpg

http://www.isrtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/rfactor2_indy_oval_indycar_bourdais05.jpg

From what I've seen, the front wing drops off way more than the real car, as the road wing does

http://www.isrtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/rfactor2_indy_rc14_indycar_hawksworth03.jpg

http://digbza2f4g9qo.cloudfront.net...urse-LongBeach-Std.jpg?vs=1&d=20140412T174030

Sorry to be nitpicky, just trying to be a little costructice :)
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Couple of your links don't open, but you appear to be linking, with the first image at least, to a wing no longer used, and saying we're supposed to look like one no longer used. :)
 
Empty Box said:
I'm going to say it and you guys will hate me for it : the oval in the DW12 is just bad.

No weight jacker. (which is probably one of the most important in car adjustments in any car anywhere for this car on an oval - then again Diff adjustments in an F1 car are pretty big and of course we don't have those either here!)
No fuel mapping options (which is why no one wants to lead at Indy in this car)
Setups that are entirely wrong by default and alternate setup is as well (in race trim you should be using 5th gear by yourself, 6th in the draft - this is pretty much the standard config in Indycar, I'm not sure why the sets don't mirror this)
Car is a good bit too fast for race trim. (like it's stuck on qualifying boost - 240 into T1 in the draft here - I'll be watching to see if anyone hits 230 in the draft IRL.)

On the plus side, the draft seems massive, as it should. I do think though that once again there isn't enough instability from trailing another car though.

And now, for the worst of the worst :
The track races entirely wrong thanks to real road being so accelerated. Have you ever seen someone running 3 lanes off the bottom at Indy and not smacking the wall or shedding 20 MPH? Yea, neither have I until rF2. Flat. Out. Wrong. Real road not working at a normal pace has well and truly ruined this combo, it's not exciting at all. When I go into T1 in the iRacing version, I get a feel for just how narrow of a window turn in is, just how easy it is to put it in the wall. Here the track is basically Tilke-wide. I guarantee you in the race today someone will get out of the grip and end up in the wall in T1 today, in rF2 you almost have to steer into it - you can always just crank more wheel in and because there is always grip out there thanks to the acceleration, no issue. It's better offline than online, that is for sure. (sure enough, lap 1 Briscoe ends up way wide, way slow and ends up hitting another car to avoid the wall in T2 on the first lap of the race.)

As well as thanks to real road (or physics) it's very possible to get ludicrous amounts of sideways and save it on the oval. This yet again flies back in the face of years upon years of what everyone who pays attention to Indy has seen. Flies in the face of what Kurt Busch would vouch for as well, I am sure. :eek:

After spending the week in the iRacing version of this same combo, it's not even close to a contest, that version is leaps and bounds ahead. Maybe I'm being harsh on it because the iRacing version of that experience is IMHO superior, maybe it's because I love indycars that much, maybe it's because I'm an ass who is willing to put things perhaps too bluntly, but the DW12 on the oval was just wrong. I would equate the experience there to something like Forza. Let the hate commence.

As for the road course version, which is arguably the more important of the two for rF2:

It's pretty good. Pretty good setups, stable car that can be nicely balanced on the power. Better low speed FFB feel compared to past open wheelers on the normal level of wheels - non servo stuff. I do think that the FR3.5 2014 is a more engaging experience that has better nuances though.

However...

...I almost am never that guy, but today is the day...

...this car does seem like it has a bit too much rear grip. It could be setup related admittedly - or possibly even because we have weak wheels and they have no power steering, but when you watch these cars in the real world you do see the drivers work a lot more. Just seems a bit easy to put the power down.

Circuit wise it's all fairly good, though rF2's lighting makes everything look very weird. Hopefully the lighting will be refined as we go, be it through HDR tweaks or the track lighting itself. Lots of contrast.
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lol, if someone hates you for stating your opinion, you're not the one at fault in that situation. Opinions are fine, I only ever really get annoyed myself when someone is flat out wrong on basic information. ;)

As I said, we're really hoping to get another source of data. The one we used, we're accurate to. It's unusual for us to just have one source, but we can't base anything off 'it seems like it should be' or 'it looks like it should be from what I've seen on TV'. :) We're still working on the car, as mentioned in the first post. :)

I'll flat out say that I'm not 100% happy. But I am very happy and proud to bring this to rF2 as it is right now.

I don't agree with the comments on lighting, but you're welcome to state them. If the lighting looks odd, can only say to try setting at times the races actually run, etc. It looks very much like I've seen it when I have been there. I think this might be a personal taste issue, if not, there's not much we can do but what we believe is right.
 
Tim Wheatley said:
Couple of your links don't open, but you appear to be linking, with the first image at least, to a wing no longer used, and saying we're supposed to look like one no longer used. :)
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Whoops, sorry. Lets try this again.

These shots are from this race weekend:

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/297...AY/2014/05/24//1400963213000-XXX-TONYK-07.JPG

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/830...47685003-USP-IndyCar-Indianapolis-500-003.jpg

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/921...43574002-USP-IndyCar-Indianapolis-500-021.jpg


To compare, the rF2 model has a much steeper "drop" in the front wing, more like how the RC wing is:

http://rfactor.net/web/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/rfactor2_indy_oval_indycar_hawksworth02.jpg

http://rfactor.net/web/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/rfactor2_indy_oval_indycar_bourdais05.jpg
 
William David Marsh said:
Whoops, sorry. Lets try this again.

These shots are from this race weekend:

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/297...AY/2014/05/24//1400963213000-XXX-TONYK-07.JPG

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/830...47685003-USP-IndyCar-Indianapolis-500-003.jpg

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/921...43574002-USP-IndyCar-Indianapolis-500-021.jpg


To compare, the rF2 model has a much steeper "drop" in the front wing, more like how the RC wing is:

http://rfactor.net/web/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/rfactor2_indy_oval_indycar_hawksworth02.jpg

http://rfactor.net/web/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/rfactor2_indy_oval_indycar_bourdais05.jpg
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Ah, I see what you mean. Do you know how wing angle would effect that? ie: would that wing be right for a certain setup with the oval config, or never right? If you don't know, I'll ask internally, no problem.
 
Paul Loatman said:
I already said it before, but take a look at this video if you really think these cars in rF2 have too much rear grip:



This is in qualifying so they'd be pushing pretty hard and the second half is in the rain, the rear isn't all over the place. Just like most modern race cars, these things appear as if they're on rails, and they'll feel that way too if you're not pushing them, but when you're on the limit you won't feel like you're on rails. I frankly think people are just not pushing the car, because even if there are issues with grip levels, it doesn't look like a huge difference to me and most of that difference could be because of real road.
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Well, I did a 07.2 with just 30 laps and not even qualy fuel, so I guess I'm pushing enough. And I still find the car too easy on throttle. It's not like the problem is huge or horrible, but it's a bit overoptimistic.
 
Paul Loatman said:
I already said it before, but take a look at this video if you really think these cars in rF2 have too much rear grip:



This is in qualifying so they'd be pushing pretty hard and the second half is in the rain, the rear isn't all over the place. Just like most modern race cars, these things appear as if they're on rails, and they'll feel that way too if you're not pushing them, but when you're on the limit you won't feel like you're on rails. I frankly think people are just not pushing the car, because even if there are issues with grip levels, it doesn't look like a huge difference to me and most of that difference could be because of real road.
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It's hard to gauge. I can't say anyone is wrong about this, but we can't make changes based on public opinion. We need another data source and then we'd either know if we're right, or be able to see how far off the first source made us. There's also (in all configs) certain things we do not have core support for, that the drivers adjust while driving... Then like you say, we have a normal track, they drove on a very green track, with oils coming out the asphalt, etc, etc. Our track has more grip than they had during 2014, but might have in 2015 when the track is more established and had a summer on it.
 
I haven't read all 12 pages- so maybe this has been reported.

In the short oval configuration, the RPM on the steering wheel shows up fine until over 9999 RPM then it drops the last digit and 10000 shows up as 1000
 
Domi said:
I have done that, achieved fast laptimes with a more oversteery setup, but on acceleration out of slow corners it's too planted, like if the engine lacks power on the mid range of rpm, dunno. But I can go full throttle instantly out of evey corner basically.

And this has nothing to do with hardcore simracering or any stupid stuff like that, I also hate fake hard physics, but this car is way way easy on acceleration out of slow corners, considering the power it has, imo.
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It might be that the turbos haven't started spinning yet.
 
Based on my personal opinion as compared to what I see in real life, so same as you :) And also because sim laptimes are a lot faster than real ones.
 
Tim Wheatley said:
... As I said, we're really hoping to get another source of data. The one we used, we're accurate to. It's unusual for us to just have one source, but we can't base anything off 'it seems like it should be' or 'it looks like it should be from what I've seen on TV'. :) We're still working on the car, as mentioned in the first post. :) ...
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I too questioned whether grip and ease of handling is correct so I am very glad to read this. One nightmare for me would be ISI starting to please people so they have some quick fun and feel good. Accurate based on real data (the more the better) is the only thing I would accept.
 
Cousin_Ken said:
These.

A huge leap back to the future. Papyrus pace car driver at pit row exit with DW-12 drive by, "What the hell was that!"
Click to expand...

LOL, I can picture that

So we came from this:


to this:


Not bad really.
 
vittorio said:
I too questioned whether grip and ease of handling is correct so I am very glad to read this. One nightmare for me would be ISI starting to please people so they have some quick fun and feel good. Accurate based on real data (the more the better) is the only thing I would accept.
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my own thoughts too, rfactor 2 has a great depth of "feel" and has to be mastered a little, there are aids to help someone after a quick & casual experience, inside sim racings comments about the back stepping out etc (not sure which car they were referring too or if it was a general point) is simply rectified by going easier on the accelerator pedal

I've never found Iracing "icy" either

there's always the ultra grip crowd & there's titles out there for them

I'm not after something that feels as though it's on ice but I doubt I could jump into a real Indy car and throw it around like I did first time with the (ISI) sim version, maybe I was seeing what I wanted to see but a lot of YouTube vids show a lot of steering input corrections & good accelerator traction management in these cars.

I would never expect to have the steering wheel turned and be able to apply full pedal and hear the revs screech to max and the back dosn't slip at all even on a track with some rubber down, I know these cars are light and have more torque at higher speed etc but I'd expect to need more respect for such a powerful performance car.

At least a couple of hours ( if all aids off ) to start to feel the limits of a sim car
(mainly the speed in which we can turn corners) and then a nice progressional learning process after that is great in a simulator

anyhow which ever way these go I'm still enjoying them & looking forward to update
 
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GCCRacer said:
LOL, I can picture that

So we came from this:


to this:


Not bad really.
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good post & gosh how far we have came hey
 
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