In the end, you'll all come crawling back...

I don't hate this racing simulation, I just think ISI are a victim of their own reputation. We go back a long way you see (although they wouldn't know it) and each time they've created something they've raised the racing bar.


Sports Car GT...

I had a brief fling with this game, back in my early days of racing. I remember being surprised by the amount of options it gave you - I wasn't used to the level of depth and customisation. More than anything I remember driving it, and being able to drive it, like I would a real car. It may look simple now but you can't argue with the physics, and yes i'm sure they'd be considered flawed today (in comparison).. you could say that about any sim, but it still felt good at the time.

For a few years after this I was led astray - I found my sim racing fix elsewhere (from other companies). That was until they finally released their masterpiece - and what was in my eyes the best and most complete sim ever made..


F1 Challenge 99-02

Four seasons of my favourite sport in one game? The sport with which I have an unhealthy obssession fully represented with all the cars and circuits included? Great graphics and sounds with accurate performance of each teams' car from all four seasons? Comprehensive setup options, telemetry and a ridiculous level of customisation?

You b@stards.

This game was perfection to me - it really did have it all, and most importantly it felt great to drive. I poured so many hours of my life into F1 Challenge - working on setups, practicing, racing online, competing on FindTheLimit... it was a great time in my sim racing 'career' and it still holds many good memories today (particularly of the online aspect).

When I look back now I feel a certain amount of sadness, as I simply can't find the same level of interest today (in any sim) - nothing has grabbed me the way that game did. And it makes me wonder how it ever got made, with the amount of time and effort required... it couldn't happen again today. And it won't

In those days F1 was a sim. I don't know what it is now.


And that leads me nicely on to rFactor 1, in all it's moddable glory. And it deserves this glory, because it brought everyone back together again (well, most of us anyway).

rFactor was a massive step, both forwards and back. The engine felt so much better - the bar for physics and graphics had again been raised, but during this upgrade they abandoned my rain. And yes I do consider it my rain, because most people don't want to drive in it.


"Wet weather is nice to have in a sim, but in reality does anyone actually use it? They try it out to see how it looks and then they forget about it. It's too much effort to drive in the rain."


I drive in the rain. For me it's one of the most important features in a sim, and one of the most important things missing if the sim doesn't have it. So yes I loved rFactor - it's a great sim and I played it for many years, racing online and just generally having a lot of fun. But I always had that nagging annoyance in my head - I loved driving in the rain (you might have noticed) and rFactor didn't have any.

During the rFactor years I obviously tried out every other sim available (as every sim racing fanatic should). Both GTR2 and GTR Evo gave me my wet weather fix (thanks SimBin!), GT Legends was fun for drifting those old classic cars, and a number of other sims (NetKar Pro, Live for Speed, Shift 1+2) were dabbled with but never got much of my time.


And then it happened.

Just as these OAP's of the sim racing world were starting to feel tired/dated (a bit too long in the tooth) some hot new titles were announed. Not one, not two, not even three, but four!! (???) Four brand new sims were being created!!


Project CARS, rFactor 2, RaceRoom Racing Experience and Assetto Corsa. Absolutely ridiculous.


As great as this was I have always held a slight worry, that the sim racing community would be divided. Are there really enough of us to go 'round? Enough sim racing fanatics to turn all of these titles into a success? Even today we don't have an answer.

It all went a bit funny you see. Yes these games are still coming out - some of them are half-way here, but none of them are close to being finished/done/completed/declared 'gold'. And that leads me to the question of what 'finished' actually is. I'm not going to try and answer that here though - whilst I was once confident I knew the answer, today i'm not so sure.


We're in a swirling sea of Beta's, Alpha's, pre-release payments and long lost demos (of the 'Tech' variety). And it feels like a bit of a mess. But I degress - it's better to have four racing sims currently 'in-progress' than none at all. Let's take a look at them and nail our colours to the ever-creaking mast...



Project CARS.

I'm a Team Member, they got me with that initial screenshot showing the cockpit of a Formula B car as it raced around a track. What track was it? I didn't care - it just looked amazing. And it still does, but it's also difficult to describe the disappointment I felt the first time I drove the car. At first the steering was completely inaccurate but to their credit they fixed it within a couple of days - that's when I got my first real taste of the physics. It was an improvement over the Shift series but it was still lacking in many areas and (in my opinion) it still is to this day. The Seta Tyre Model has improved things a lot, but it's still a long way behind the old sims (nevermind the possible new ones). Graphically it is excellent - I know some people don't like all the post-processing effects or think they're over-done, but for me this is the benchmark for visuals right now. The speed at which they release new content and updates is very impressive, and the amount of content they already have is stunning - I was especially surprised at how quickly they got wet weather up and running.

pCars is obviously not finished yet, so we shouldn't make a final judgement. I hope it does indeed become a great sim, but having driven many different builds since it first went public I personally doubt it will ever feel as good as most hardcore sim racers would require. I wish them the best in their quest to get there though.



RaceRoom Racing Experience.

This title is so new (to the public) that it almost feels unfair to say anything yet, however it has already entered Open Beta stage and I believe this is enough to give us a good idea of the final product. And what a strange product it is... just as we were all expecting GTR3 they announced this 'free to play' racing sim where you only pay for the cars and tracks you want to use? I'm still not quite sure what to make of their strategy, but the game itself is certainly very solid.

The cars already feel good to drive - you could maybe say they were slightly bland or floaty, but from the laps I have driven so far the cars definitely do what I expect them to. They seem to behave very realistically without any of the quirks you sometimes get in other sims which make you think "that was odd" whilst driving around the track. The graphics are very nice (without being spectacular) and the game looks particularly nice in replays - the whole sim has a very clean look to it. There is no wet weather (yet), no night racing, and you can't currently race the AI. I think it's safe to say there's still a long way to go in terms of modes and features, but there's a very solid base here for SimBin to build on.



Assetto Corsa.

I haven't played it yet (shock horror), but I'm certainly intrigued by it... partly because they haven't asked me for any money yet. I'll admit it looks great from the screenshots and videos, but i'm curious as to how it's going to turn out.

The hype for this title is insane - It seems a lot of people are thinking (or hoping) that Assetto Corsa is going to be the final word in sim racing - "One Sim to rule them all" if you please. It is moddable which is a massive plus point, the selection of cars looks very nice and they are expected to have excellent physics and handling... we will see.



rFactor 2.

Unbelievable. Or should I say 'unbelievable disappointment' the first time I loaded it up and took a car out on track. I'm lucky enough to have a computer powerful enough to max out any game I throw at it, so yes I maxed out rFactor 2, and I couldn't believe how bad it looked. That was my very first impression of this game.

You made a visual leap from Sports Car GT to F1 2000, and again with F1 Challenge 99-02. And you made another huge stride in the visual department when you created rFactor 1. I was expecting the same step up in graphical quality again with rFactor 2. Now maybe 'under the hood' it is there - an engine with far more complex graphical effects and subtleties going on, but from the point of view of the user I'm really not seeing it. And then I think back to the screenshots..

Prior to the Beta being made available to the public ISI released a number of screenshots of the game (over the period of months or maybe years), and some of them were truly awful - looking like something from 2005 but certainly not 2011. And I remember the reasons given too - that the screenshots were taken with "very low detail settings", that they "didn't have Anti-aliasing applied", or that all the fancy post-processing effects such as motion blur/depth of field or bloom hadn't been 'turned on' yet. Looking back now I'm not sure if this was all truth or just something to paper over the cracks.

Let's forget about graphics for a moment and move on to something a bit more positive...

I'll admit (although I'm not psychic) - I never had a single doubt that this sim would handle well. And it does indeed handle very well. That's quite a big understatement there, because this is clearly (in my humble opinion) the best handling sim ever created - I mean it's just ridiculously good. I've never felt so connected to a car as I do in rFactor 2, to the point where I'm almost dancing the car around the track rather than just driving it. Absolutely brilliant.

Ignoring the visual aspect this is already the perfect sim - it has everything I'm looking for. Just driving the car is pure bliss, to the point where I can happily drive lap after lap simply practicing, watching as the clouds roll in and it starts to rain, adjusting my driving style and trying to 'thread the eye of a needle' as I struggle to stay on the drying line. It's just awesome.

And then we come back to those well known problems..

Running absolutely maxed out with level 8 Anti-aliasing, a little Sparse-Grid SuperSampling and driving at a certain in-game time of day the game can look pretty solid - some people would argue it can look pretty good. And that's great, but this is supposed to be a sim to last for many years - if the best it can be today is 'pretty good' what's it going to look like in 3 or 4 years time? I agree it looks decent from the cockpit view, but from the trackside cameras in replays it really can look like an ugly mess, and I don't know why. That's what's so frustrating - if you take RaceRoom Racing Experience as an example - I don't believe their car or track models are that much better than rFactor 2's, yet in the replays that sim looks really good - it looks clean and sharp, with a nice (but subtle) depth of field technique giving a slight blur to the backgrounds. rFactor 2 looks messy and sluggish in comparison, with shadows coming and going, trackside objects flickering, car models changing their LOD's right before your eyes and just an overall lack of polish. And I know it's only in Beta (?) but so are all these other sims - if you really do have any fancy post-processing tricks up your sleeve it's time to start turning them on. Please.

Other problems include the obvious slow rate of progress, the complete lack of communication and the removal of a 'Beta' tag meaning we can't even ask when the sim is going gold. These problems exist, we all know about them (we've gotten used to them), and if you're a buyer of rFactor 2 you're simply going to have to put up with them. Personally i'm waiting for rainspray from the tyres, raindrops on the visor (?), tyre wear and the good old tyre-temp readout bug to be fixed, but as I'm sure you can guess - i've given up asking. I think now we just have to wait, let them get on with the job.



So where are we now? Well I assume everyone here has been trying the other sims over the past few weeks and months, but if you're still scraping around the ISI forums waiting for a tweet (sic) you've probably done the same as me and gone full circle. The simple fact is no other sim has given me the sheer pleasure of driving that rFactor 2 provides. This sim can become a drug, a new addiction for me - it really is that good.

And that's where we are (or where I am anyway). Within the next few months most of these sims should be hitting 'release' status - whether that means 'going gold', becoming version 1.0 or simply finishing some features and saying "yeah, this looks just about done to me", everyone is going to have to show their hand. It's not a competition though - I'd like to think there is room for all four of these sims to succeed, but like most people I'll probably end up settling on one specific sim for most of my driving needs... the one that best suits my requirements.



But whatever sim you end up putting your weight behind please don't become blinded by it - there's really no need to put down the others... life's too short to place hatred on a racing game. And anyhow - something tells me that once it's all said and done we'll all still be here, sitting on this very forum moaning to Tim about how long it's taking for the next Godforsaken update. And no - none of us have tried Assetto Corsa yet (the great pretender), but I'll tell you one thing for sure - when it does finally come out (if it ever actually comes out)... there won't be any sodding rain.




Note; The opinions expressed in this post are solely the opinions of the author and in no way reflect the opinions of anybody else. Unless you agree with them...

 

Fair assessment. Unlike other "bashing posts", you actually tell us what disappoints in a detailed way (I.e. not just saying "it's crap"). I applaud you for this. Nobody likes negative feedback, but thoughtful negative feedback at lease gives ISI something to chew on. Something specific.

I also think you're spot on with how rF2 drives. Yes, there are some VERY good mods out there for rF1, but that engine cannot communicate some of the things that rF2 is able to do. The amount of feedback I get from the car is staggering compared to rF1.

 

You should move to the Codemasters-type games. Clearly sim racing is not for you since graphics is your top priority. Dirt and the F1 201X games are more suited to someone who is most concerned with graphics.

 

Good post. Actually reminds me of some I've made myself about mmo's. rFactor 2 is little like WoW for me, I've spend 6 years of my life playing it, and cant find anything that could drop it from the throne no matter how I've looked and how pretty and polished they seem to be. Also those memories of the "good old days" are also there, with Neocron and L2 and seems like they cant be topped no matter what they come up with.

When talking about sims...The history looks about the same, and there is memories of moments/franchises that blew me away, and jumping into Clio, after installing rF2 for the first time, was deffinetly one of them.
I do agree with you about the looks of these games you mentioned. There is glimpses of beauty in rF2 graphics wise, but still there is this annoing nagging in the back of my head that says "it should look better".
I do agree with you about the feel of rF2. Absolutely amazing how this sim drives and I cant imagine settling for much less than what rF2 offers on that department. I have doubts that any of the upcoming sims/games can match that.

Highest hopes I have for AC, (if you dont count in rF2) maybe its the hype and good PR they are doing at Kunos, but also they did make NetKar Pro.
The shift folks with pCars. Its not going to be a Hardcore sim, the fact that its going to be also a console title says alot. Also they said that they want to compete with Forza and Gran Turismo is a dead give away. Then again the new Gen consoles should be coming out at the latest early next year, will have a big effect again on what the console sim can offer.
Raceroom just feels weird, as a concept and a future of simbin sims. I was really thinking they would have gotten something new going with the GTR3, but seems like Raceroom is just stretching on the race07 series. Maybe they are waiting till ISI sells them the rF2 engines to make the GTR3.

So... rF2 is kicking ass in the most important aspect, the handling. I do hope that it catches up with few of the others and greatness would turn into perfection.



Ps. This threat clearly calls for popcorn! brb.

 

Great analysis, shame Guy seems to have missed the point, from you typed it is obvious that physics is more important to you but what the hell is wrong with it looking good too? I think rF2 is starting to show improvement there, LRP is the best looking track to date from ISI, and the latest car is also the best looking too. feels3 is doing great work and has said there is more to come from the graphics engine once he has got to grips with it...Yes the pace is slow, but that is the way of things with ISI, their small team makes that a given. Like you I have most all the sims and somehow rF2 is the one I enjoy the most, it is connected in a way others don't seem to be.

 

Oh, come on.

Yes, graphics do matters. Have you compare RF2 to any other nowadays racing game?
Take RaceRoom, it is a good example how a game from todays date can look good, run smooth and have decent physics in the same time.

RF2 looks outdated and yet requires a beast configuration to run everything on "max" smooth.
Hence, there are some videos in RF1 section where the game looks almost the same as RF2.

Great post from FortRight by the way, I pretty much agree with everything.

 

Fantastic Post.

 

A good read. And I feel nearly the same.
The only difference is that I can imagine myself using AC for sprint series (short races) IF it turnes out the way everyone wishes it will. For endurance racing (my main interest), I don't think there'll be a way around rFactor 2 as soon as the driver swap will be included.

I fired up the last few builds of pCars and I'd be a liar if I wouldn't say that I would love to have visuals of that level in rFactor 2. The driving itself feels numb and I usually take a car, drive two or three laps, then I switch the car or the track. I simply don't get any enjoyment out of it except for "Wow, this looks great". It's completely different with rFactor 2. In rF2, I fire up a car on a track and drive for probably an hour. I simply enjoy the driving itself. It's rewarding, and most importantly, it feels reasonable. When I spin out, I know what I did wrong. When spinning out in pCars or R3E you will probably just see a big, glowing question mark spinning over my head.

R3E looks clean and sounds great as well. But I'm really disappointed with the actual driving. When I drove the MP4-12C around the Hockenheimring I felt like I was driving a boat or something. Floaty physics, no proper feedback from the track... In one word: Strange. Or maybe I'm just spoiled by the FFB/physics of rF2. Because the revolutionary step in rF2 is clearly the physics department.

So to sum it up, I'll most probably hang out in these forums as well for quite some time. Oh, and, we had a lot of fun with some fun events in the rain in rF2. And there was noone yellin' that this is not what they'd be after. In fact, once leagues switch over to rF2, I believe there will be a ridiculous amount of rain races at first because the rFactor crowd was waiting for that feature to return in an ISI title. And to be honest, it's already really impressive. Dynamic weather & drying line? It works!

So please excuse me, I gotta dream about a 24h race at the Nordschleife complete with driver swaps, dynamic racing/drying line the infamous Eifel-weather and a proper GT mod (or even VLN/24h mod?) in rFactor 2.

 

"I'll admit (although I'm not psychic) - I never had a single doubt that this sim would handle well. And it does indeed handle very well. That's quite a big understatement there, because this is clearly (in my humble opinion) the best handling sim ever created - I mean it's just ridiculously good. I've never felt so connected to a car as I do in rFactor 2, to the point where I'm almost dancing the car around the track rather than just driving it. Absolutely brilliant." - Or did you miss that bit ?

 

a cup of coffee and a great post to read thanks Forthright

 

a great post right here!
But i have to disagree on R3E: For me, the physics feels unrealistic! I have tried it, fiddled with the FFB settings and everything, but still the physics seem strange. Especially understeer is very strange there...it feels completely wrong.
I have another question on this topic: Has someone tried Simraceway yet!? Is it even worth the download?

 

Some of your settings must be wrong then mate. I spent some time playing with them, but at the end, I nailed them and FFB and physics feel really good for RRE! Not as good as rF2, as rF2 is on a different high level imho, but almost there. I'll send you my settings if need. I use G25.

Yeah, I had downloaded this game and spent a few bucks on it....erm, it uses rF1 engine I think. I mean, it's not bad but it still feels like a decent rF1 mod if you know what I mean You have to buy most cars and I don't usually find many ppl racing online, maybe cause mostly are from the US, not sure. Haven't touched it for a while.

 

I always find hard to masturbate to a racing game but clearly some people can.
As the op said in this thread ( http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/10010-Optimization-coming/page6) who motivate him to make the kissing ass post of the month where all fanboys could express now without people find them to much ass kisser after so much crap: "when i want to read about iRacing, AC, or any others, i go there, not here"
So cutting all the crap about his feelings and others games wich left is a clear... Oh lord, please help me to find the correct words.... B.ull**** (thanks lord for helping me)
He did mention that people get fooled about that "around 6 months to gold release"?
He did mention the constantly changing in refund policy?
Oh! He did mention the beta scam, but, cheejus, what kind words for a company fron someone Who want to delete/ban/lock trolls who dare to criticize "his" game in "his" forum in the "wrong" thread, or as he say: delete/ban/lock trolls posting negative crap/comparisions with "your" software.
I'm really touched. Tears droping, fading screen.... The end.

 

free time, free time everywhere

 

I'm intrigued... Since i'm portuguese just like you, i know you? You probably know me but i i'm really curious to know if we met somewhere because i can't really believe that for months that i see posts from you here in forum and i didn't saw only ONE that is acceptable and that makes sense with something. You are always slagging and enjoing with the rest of us.

No comments Luis...

About the post itself i agree with most. For me its the best phisics i ever raced but i like graphics too and by now we should have a little better.

 

Lets concentrate on this and please point what didn't make sense to you in this post.

Edit: now i have to lunch, hope you made an effort to get the sense of this.

 

Hey Luis, i reported your post for the Use of rude language. If you have anything sensefull to say, please try to express it...but not in that way...that post was just ridiculous!

 

That's like asking a religous believer to reason logically. Won't happen - ever.

 

-snip-

 

To be honest, I found it hard to make sense of any of it, but I did get the sense it was quite offensive.