You are right. Theoretically speaking steering torque generated by tyres is at minimum in correspondence of the slip angle where the tyre generates maximum lateral grip. So, when the tyre exceed that slip angle and the car increase sliding, the steering torque increases. In FFB terms, when entering a corner one should feel in sequence: torque decrease-max lateral grip-torque increase.
Well, this is going to be hard to explain with my "rally English" I have never said that your FFB is wrong and I am also aware that my FFB is using static effects of spring and damper. As I wrote before:"I think that most of us know that contact patch is not ready and ISI has made statement that that we need also new build before new contact patch is going to be released." and what I mean is that it is too early to judge rFactor2 FFB because contact patch and new build is not released yet, we don`t know how it is going to feel and the only thing we know is how it is now. I own Historic GT car (vette 69) and I have also had opportunity to test other types of historic cars and my FFB is based to this real life feel how steering is when you enter and exit turns/corners, feel of braking etc. I have never claimed that it is realistic FFB everything is based to feel of the car, not how it is connected to the car.
yes I did try you FFB, could you post Thrustmaster Control Panel settings also and I give it another go
Basically every load change is transmitted to the steering system, simplest way to illustrate it is when the vehicle is out of alignment, no matter if it has slip or doesn't follow the optimal direction, the straight, even than some forces pulling and pushing at the steering arms. I'll may come back later to this topic, for now i have to do something and i'm late.
Please take a quick peek at the attached ATLAS grab, from a very quick run on a skid pan with the Skippy. The green trace is steering input, the grey trace is steering shaft torque, the blue trace is FFB output. It shows there is a clear & obvious drop in steering torque as I crank on more lock, inducing front tyre slip. Please, can we put this silly idea that "You can't feel slip in the rF2 FFB" to bed now?
Exactly why i use 100% as well. It would not recommend to limit the controlers max cababilities because not all incoming forces overload it and drive it to its max limit and it keeps staying fast in response in relation to its starting torque cababilities and overall speed. I don't think that 60% leads to the best torque charecteristic at all. The max torque can be limited with the car multi to avoid clipping. TechAde let the people the freedom to explain there opinion, it is intresting to hear and know how different people think.
If that opinion is based in fact, of course, but when the opinion is blatantly false it does more harm than good if nobody points out that it's false!
feelings are rarely based on facts and all the graphs and data in the world Will not change how ppl feel things. The ffb of the isi formula 2 car is a good example - its supposed to be realistic according to data but to me it feels totally wrong and weird. Maybe because i have a cheap wheel - g25. Well cheap in rf2 World that is.
You 100% misunderstood my statements. Please read again very carefully. What I stated: "In rF2, the correlation between FFB and LateralVel is about 60%, so one may feel tires' slip. There is no correlation between FFB and longitudinalVel of tires, so there is no way one can feel "slip angle" per se from FFB. If one claims he/she can feel "Slip angle" from sole FFB, that might be wrong. It likely is from collective feels from his brain training on all visual, audio, and hand feels and foot action. Hence one may be sort of as if feel "slip angle", because the longitudinalVel info are fed to his visual and audio sensory." Yes, you can feel slip, there is no argument on this. But NOT "slip angle" from FFB!!!!
This feel likely from your visual combination, not from FFB. The FFB has no output info of "Longitudinal", all are laternal. Most people confuse about this. Statements like (on stationary rig): "I can feel slip from FFB" --- True; "I can feel slip angle from FFB" --- false; "I can feel sliding from FFB" ----- true; "I can feel lossing grip: transitioning to sliding from FFB" --- false Regards,
Obviously I am misunderstanding what you mean. As I understand it slip can mean two things, slip ratio (longitudinal slip aka wheelspin) or slip angle (lateral slip). Are you meaning one of those two definitions or something else entirely? My graph shows clearly that as slip angle increases steering torque decreases. I fail to understand how that means you can't feel slip angle.
I do not know how did you get your slip angle. My understanding slip angle is a classic defined Lateral vs Longitudinal.
Sorry, I'm not understanding what you mean at all. I created slip angle at the front tyres by purposely turning the steering wheel, I mentioned that in my post: "as I crank on more lock, inducing front tyre slip." Maybe the colloquialism of "cranking on more lock" isn't clear? It simply means I turned the steering wheel, hard, purposely inducing a large slip angle on the front tyres. Would it help if I added some calculated channels to the plot showing the calculated slip angle of both front tyres?
that would be nice if you actually show calculation of slip angle of yours by the data, which may benefit to all.
OK, you probably agreed: "I can feel slip from FFB" --- True; "I can feel slip angle from FFB" --- false; "I can feel sliding from FFB" ----- true; but disagreed: "I can feel lossing grip: transitioning to sliding from FFB" --- false I may not be able to prove this in either way by using Telemetry data. This is because such "transitioning" is black-art for rF2, since rF2 new tire model dose NOT use the concept of "Slip angle", we really do not know what is a critical point where the transitioning occurs. If you can feel such transitioning from sole FFB, then it is your subjective feel. In motion rig, I feel rear traction loss while rear tires sliding from my butt. Of course, this is subjective feel too.
Here you go, updated plot attached. Red trace is slip angle of the LF, orange trace is slip angle of the RF (in degrees). Slip angle is calculated with the following function: return (57.2957795 * atan2($LF_LateralGroundVel, -$LF_LongitudinalGroundVel)) Note the 57.2957795 converts the results from radians to degrees.
Thanks for the charts. Lets look into this deep to understand this. The correlation between FFB and SteeringShaftTorque is 0.90 (90%) The correlation between FFB and LF_LongitudinalGroundVel -0.02 (2%) The correlation between SteeringShaftTorque and LF_LongitudinalGroundVel -0.58 (58%) So, yes there is some correlation between SteeringShaftTorque and LF_LongitudinalGroundVel, but it does NOT transfer to FFB. In other words, yes you see some correlation between SteeringShaftTorque and slip angle (as calculated), but not the same as seen in FFB.
