I wish for? A working sim.

Discussion in 'Wish Lists' started by TravisRoe666, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. TravisRoe666

    TravisRoe666 Registered

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    Hi guys,
    So Im a very long term rfactor 1 player and used a Momo wheel for many years.
    I recently bought rFactor 2 having hung on its release for literally 2-3 years.
    I fired it up and noticed my PC just wasn't cutting it at 1920x1280 with things maxxed.
    To help, I dropped res and settings. not much help.
    Thinking i finally needed an upgrade (despite quad core at 3.3ghz 8gb ram HD5870) I rushed out and bought a nice GTX590 Nvidia card ($880) and a G27 Logitech wheel setup ($300ish)
    The end result is BF3 for instance, plays in 2560x1600 on my 30" with ultra settings at OVER 120fps. this card is absolutely stunning/amazing performance.
    I fire up rfactor excited to play at last...only to find its crawling. After a bit of digging I realise my expensive new multi GPU card isnt even being utilised...1 GPU in use at about 27%.
    Switching down to NON SLI mode, I can now run with all settings maxxed at 1920x1200. but it doesnt look THAT great.

    Im aware this is an open beta , but this is an alpha-release kind of issue. Not supporting multi GPU or SLI in a working way in a new racing SIM is kinda...lame.
    Also why on earth is the rfconfig identifying the directX version in use as DirectX 9c. ...we arent using Windows XP anymore for goodness sakes....I use DX11 card and DX11 under Win7SP1 x64....I certainly dont want an engine using DX9 if avoidable.

    So...this is all really really disappointing.
    Not many cars and tracks in beta either.


    overall...I feel pretty short changed out of my $83...I literally Love rfactor and its physics and immersion and sense of speed and pretty much everything about it....but rfactor 2 needs fixing and fixing quick because those of use faithful to ISI have been waiting a LONG time for this and the current state of the game is unacceptable.,

    if this is the condition the code is in it shouldnt have been open beta'd frankly. the minimum requirement for a public beta should be basic hardware support and engine functions up and running. i cant imagine why on earth devs thought non SLI release was OK. I know youre helping community/modders/etc but come on guys.

    Travis
     
  2. TravisRoe666

    TravisRoe666 Registered

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    ive emailed john from dev team about this as well as its really disappointing to not be able to run this game smoothly properly using the $880 video card I bought specifically for this game. not to mention the 2560x1600 30" + 1920x1280 46" screen setup ....or surround sound stereo system and sound card. cmon guys help someone who has invested heavily in rfactor out here :(
     
  3. Gridgirl

    Gridgirl Registered

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  4. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    Funny you should mention the refund button. I've notice the ISI guy's refer people to use it to. Not sure why, Maybe it's not getting use and they just want someone to test it!

    Travis; I just love the arrogance you've shown here. It's all about me! I have so I want! This is known as the Jack system. " I'm right Jack so screw you" Or is it just a case of mind over matter? " I don't mind and you don't matter".

    Maybe Gidgirl has the right idea
     
  5. TravisRoe666

    TravisRoe666 Registered

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    lol

    its not arrogance; it's called the expectation of a long term, paying customer.
    Additionally, it's not a problem "I'm" having, it's everyone that has invested in a system capable of running DX11 games at high speed.
    ISI mentioned I could refund but that is not what I want; I'm merely providing feedback, on a beta, which is the whole point of running an open beta.
    ISI have let me know the beta is more slanted at developers to test the modding system.
    That's fine, and I understand.
    Don't call me arrogant however; I work for a software development company in a development role myself and I'm well aware of the various pressures on a dev team from customers, the company, investors etc. the simple fact of the matter is, when you release an 'open beta', the implication Of course, is that the product is in a state that will be testable by members of the public.
    Given the engine is not using DX11, given the engine cannot use multi GPU or SLI cards properly, and given that the scaling in the engine is not working, I think I have a valid case to raise this point. I want to make sure this is all fixed in the released version.
    This isn't about me - its about the sheer fact any beta product released to the public really should meet a minimum standard; such as BF3 beta releases and many many (every) other beta release I can remember. You don't limp out a crippled engine and say its just for testing the mod system. thats bizarre.
    Either way, im happy to wait for the final version as im very certain it will all be fixed, working, and glorious, i have a LOT of faith in ISI after the beauty of rfactor 1 and the early great signs rfactor 2 is showing.
    some ppl on here rly should get their head out of their ass though...telling people to click refund is a joke. that isnt the point of providing feedback on a BETA knobs. ISI can state the point of the beta is whatever they choose, but we all know full well people waiting for this game have downloaded the beta hoping to play early and get a feel for the game, as well as test cars, mods etc. those people are likely quite disappointed right now and the attitude being shown to myself and paying customers is pretty damn shoddy to say the least. Also as a Developer, how am I supposed to be testing tracks and track building complexity etc now? I can't gauge the rendering performance or visual quality at all based on this build and hence I can't really finalise any paintings or models or tracks. so all i can truthfully test as per ISI's statement is the modding system. OK great thats fine but it certainly makes me question the validity of calling it an open beta and also, if I raise this point after paying my money after buying rf1 after being a long term rfactor supporter, rfactor central poster, car developer, multi-monitor tester, I expect a BETTER response than 'click refund'. get off your high horse I do have options here. I love rfactor I really do however I do have expectations of a modern game in 2012 after 7 years since the last release, and calling it a BETA means its progressed past alpha and all the expected alpha level problems with rendering engines, sound engines, etc. 'Open beta' really implies the product is nearing completion and the dev wants feedback on outstanding bugs , feature omissions, device compatibility etc. This isnt an open beta its more like a limited developer alpha. Im happy its released I get to try out some tracks and modding the cars/painting but if the game is 6 months away im concerned. why make people pay for this 'open beta' if its in such an incomplete state. the only people this paid-for 'open beta' is useful to is developers and those developers are the people who keep the rF community alive, vibrant, active...so you make those people pay early for the privilege of a dx9/non SLI engine? um ok. Anyway lets hope this situation is resolved soon. And ISI really need to drop the defensive 'click refund then' crap that is just ridiculous attitude and going to lose you customers. im pretty annoyed they even suggested that to be honest. very annoyed. if i wanted a bl**dy refund id ask for one. I just want the open beta I paid for to function like every other open beta ive ever seen on any product, and that is close to final release functionality!!!
    but i get it, its clearly a dev alpha in terms of state so Im just gonna have to wait. hope its not too long a wait as I have new gear I feel like driving on right now and there's other sims. way to turn a really hopeful, excited event into a bitter-tasting disappointment. all it wouldve taken was an email from ISI back saying 'understand the issue, working on it, this is an early beta dont worry will be fixed', and id be 100% happy customer, instead i get a defensive click refund then type reply and attacked for reported the problem....perhaps i will just click refund along with everyone else in the rF league/server i run. Grr. Anyway. hope the release version isnt too far away, or an update for the 'open beta'.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2012
  6. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    Ok very good post Travis. For that I'm going to apologise for my last statement calling you arrogant. I only wish you could have been more to the point in the first post as you were in the second. Thus you came across as thinking only of yourself and others that can have that gorgeous system as Gidgirl put it.

    Getting past the DX11 thing which by the way isn't that much better then DX9 optimised ISI decided to stay with DX9 given that fact and the fact that only 20 maybe 30% can afford to spend $880 for a V/C not forgetting you need the rest of the right stuff to run it. The rest of what you've made comment on is valid and I have to agree. This is a question that I myself have asked as well as others. Trying to test a half operational system is pointless. Often feedback is answered with we know and it's in the build just not in this BETA one.

    Oh! The push the refund button? No joke! I don't think anyone has yet and ISI really need to test it.;)
     
  7. TravisRoe666

    TravisRoe666 Registered

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    haha maybe...;) i wont be clicking refund any time soon...ive been hanging on this release!!
    my moaning aside, im still enjoying the physics and tire model and having a long awaited drive. the physics feel AWESOME.
     
  8. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    Agreed!!!;)
     
  9. ADSTA

    ADSTA Registered

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    cough paragraphs cough
    I might read it then!
     
  10. Golly

    Golly Registered

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    I agree with alot that Travis has said. Our group is at a standstill at the moment in terms of what RF2 is capable of. Yeah sure we can punch out the mod for the beta stage, but that would be pointless. If a mod group is wanting to do better than they did for rf1 for rf2, then any serious group really has put the brakes on until full release of this great game. The off road tracks that we have been shown in the early stages, looked great, but the video of the stadium truck was very vague in its suspension performance and did not show you much. When we saw the tracks, we though yes !! ISI are doing some great stuff for the offroad community by releasing offroad included cars and tracks. But we did not even get a test track in the Beta.... that astounds me. There is quite a good following of offroad and rally enthusiasts for RF, even though the performance for RF1 was limited, people still tried producing what we could do with limited suspensions capabilities. To see the tracks and trucks in the teaser videos and pictures and not see at least one of each in the Beta is a snub to the off road community quite frankly I feel. I too have a 500 dollar card 4 months ago, and it it looks worse than Evo GTR quite frankly. The fact that the AA is up the poop is beyond me. I too believe it is an alpha, to have a released Beta we should be able to at least have all graphic settings and engine working at their fullest. I understand not having some fine settings in UI and other stuff not available, limited cars yes of course, but the cars we have and engine we have should be at its fullest quality, so we know what the final release will look like at least. The final release should be the extra tracks and extra cars. That is what people will pay for in the long run and are quite happy to pay the full dollars for now if they quality of the Beta that we were led to believe we would get. I feel a tad let down for paying $83.00 as I have not fired it up for a few weeks now... To wait another 6mths for a final release, and not even know if offroad is going to be well catered for and the engine capable of proper offroad/rally suspensions and physics and track setups, is quite dissapointing and the money would of been better off in my account until I decided to buy it or not upon the final release.

    For the offroad enthusiasts, lets just hope we are looked after like we were led to believe early in the peace. Or it will be back to arcade racing for us hahahaha....

    Golly from EWOR out! Oh... ISI great work for the tarmac physics and feel, please please please look after the dirty racers and not just the tarmac fairies... (all meant in good spirity fairies... ) hehe... :cool:
     
  11. TonyRickard

    TonyRickard Registered

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    The converse of this is that many were clamouring for ISI to release what they had with some of the "faithful" getting cross at the delay when the closed beta guys were having fun.

    Am I glad it was released in its current condition? Absolutely, with some tweaking it runs on three screens quite satisfactorily with a single GPU and hopefully there will be more to come. It is certainly working well enough to give feedback and get a feel for the potential, beyond that it is a blast to drive a 60's F1 at Spa and even the AI work well enough to have fun.

    Maybe the devs felt that the reluctance people show for paying for sim racing software extended to hardware...
     
  12. D.Painter

    D.Painter Registered

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    Golly; It seam the main thing that ISI wanted to test was the Mod system. As I and many others see it, It's a total failure! Makes modding a chore not a fun hobby. Not to mention the racing side.

    Point is there's a lot of stuff that's not in this build. Thing will be introduce over the 6 months so it can be tested. I'd have to say it's probably a good idea to hold back on releasing you mod/s.
     
  13. ESP=EWE=

    ESP=EWE= Registered

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    EWE will not be releasing anything until well after we have seen the final build..

    As most other credible mod groups we want to push the boundries of what can be done in our chosen form of racing.

    As has been pointed out over several threads now that there is simply no point working on mods until we know whats staying/coming.
     
  14. Golly

    Golly Registered

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    Agree with your thoughts on holding back... there is no real point starting if we as modding groups do not know what the final engine is capable of and if certain aspects of sim racing are going to be catered for... as we all know how much work goes into making a decent mod, geez four of us took over 6 months at least with many late hours to bring EWOR out... I would hate to think what groups like Historix and Endurance Racers and such take with the content they have will take to bring our much loved RF1 mods to RF2 and raise the bar when they do... thats what I hope mod groups do... raise the bar.. challenge them selves and lets push this puppy to its limits as so far I am impressed, but in the same token let down in a lot of aspects of the pre release. If RF1 got us 6 or so years out of the sim, then by rights we should get more from Rf2 which is what the devs are hoping for sure. If they could some how incorporate DX11 and higher in patches years later on so the engine stays current and competitive then win win for both the devs and us sim racers alike... for now.. golly out.
     
  15. shum94

    shum94 Registered

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    So you bought a graphic card 880 $ while your previous spec allowed you i'm sure to run with max settings BF3 & Crysis 2.

    You must not be acquinted with PC hardware... There was no need for a new gpu, rFactor 2 final should run fine on your previous specs.

    Plus ATI 7970 are 549 $ with better fps / dollars ratio and less watts load.

    Ask for refund and come back in july, see if it gets better and inform yourself on pc hardware.
     
  16. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    I work as developer as well what I stated a lot of times in various discussions. But looks like ISI company is the one which work out of any rules. For example they has no any schedule, as Tim ones has said. I have read that ISI is not EA and cannot work like regular company due to this. So looks like due to this the can release some alfa version calling it beta, just to shut us up for a while. It is not only my feeling. A lot of forums is full of such winning. even closed beta team members say that.

    DX11 is not the reason why game is "slow" and looks "old". Since ISI is not able to do correct looking gfx on DX9, using DX11 will change nothing.
    What is pissing me off more is missing feedback from devs while testing beta product. Sometimes it looks like our suggestions/reports are ignored/are not confirmed/or so. Worse when issue report is thrown out with the ignorance, or without tryint to understand a point. Like my note about starting rF2 with wrong naming convention practices. I must to remind discussion about WIP screenshots. Criticism wasn't allowed and was stopped by ISI and also part of community by 'it is WIP' sentence. Now we have beta which looks same... I can bet that release will still look same. I'm curious when they will start to listen complaints that the product's gfx is outdated instead of trying to get saying "it is not ready". Hope it will not be too late.

    It all turns me into feeling that the job we do (to test) is useless and basically proves the point of reason of releasing this version.

    But at the end, what we can do with this? Nothing.
    My suggestion is just calm down, because we cannot do anything with this. We can wait or not. Stay with beta/alpha or ask for refund. But whatever we do it changes nothing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2012
  17. TonyRickard

    TonyRickard Registered

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    What pissed you off was that you didn't like the answer! Should ISI divert resource into writing a set of guidelines for naming conventions? I would say it is right at the bottom of the list and most people frankly wouldn't care nor want ISI acting like the EU.
     
  18. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    It is not acting like the EU. It's about helping all of us to work the same way while creating mods. Programming languages have conventions. database modelling has conventions. Project documenting is also regulated by some conventions. Why creating mods shouldn't be lined up? Just only because you think that any rule limits you?
    I'm working as programmer/system designer and I know that conventions are for some reason, not to make people annoyed. rF2 is not a game only. It is kind of framework and working with it should be regulated by rules. Even "stupid" directory naming.

    And it is not because I don't like the answer. I don't like how Tim (as part of dev team) answered while others agreed with me. It's just unprofessional to me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2012

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