How to reduce oversteer?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Amarildo Junior, Oct 10, 2017.

  1. Amarildo Junior

    Amarildo Junior Registered

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    With the Apex GT3 MOD, some cars drive beautifully and have a proper steering-to-wheel-movement ratio, like on the Porsche 997, the Ferrari 458, the MP4-12C.

    But on other cars, like the SLS, the Z4, the Corvette Z06-R, they steer too much. To put it simply: I have to steer less than a real-world driver, the steering is way too sensitive. If, say, to do Eau Rouge a real driver has to turn his wheel 90º to each side, on these cars I have to turn 20º or so. This makes the steering not precise.

    Since I'm a complete newbie when it comes to setup, I need to ask: what can I do to reduce the oversteer and induce understeer?
     
  2. Jon

    Jon Registered

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    If you do a search on Google for rFactor 2 setup guide, you should easily find two downloadable PDFs; an advanced one and a basic one.

    I too am not an expert, but for starters you could try reducing the Caster, this should fix the the overtly sensitive steering. You could also try reducing the steering lock ratio. But it's important to test each change individually.

    Sorry I can't help anymore but I'm not an expert myself. I have found that some guys on the servers are extremely friendly and do readily share their setups and give tips on setting up the car. I've received various setups for the Brabham BT20 each greatly affecting the handling in different ways.

    A (very) handy function is the Compare setup which allows you to compare your loaded setup with another to see the differences.
     
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  3. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    Sound like a steering issue which Jon has answered.

    But if it's oversteer not caused by low degs or steering rotation then I'll try to help further.

    Is it turn in oversteer,or steady state oversteer,I.e the back end kicks out mid corner,or does the car want to spin under braking or when you turn in

    There are many things that can effect the transitional state and steady state handling of a car,I'm no expert but I will give my two pence.

    For turn in oversteer try softening the rear arb (anti roll bar) or stiffening the the front arb,basically in laymens terms,softening one end adds grip and take grip away from the other end during turn in and the weight shift transition period,so stiffening one end will have the opposite effect.

    If the car wants to spin during the braking faze,then either your brake bias is set too much to the rear,or the rear rebound isn't stiff enough,but dampers are for fine tuning so adjust these setting last.

    If it's steady state oversteer,i.e. After the car has turned in,the weight has shifted to the outside of the car and your cornering,but the rear loses grip,then check the aero balance front to back,try adding rear aero or reducing the front aero.

    Also ride height,specifically rake has a baring on aero balance and turn in grip/stability too,if the rear ride height is a lot higher than the front,try either lowering the rear or raising the front.

    Suspension stiffness can play a huge role too on the the handling,softer add more grip and harder removes grip,it's all about controlling ride heights and weight shift.

    I've just woke so I will keep this fairly short,there's other setting that can greatly effect the handling too,diff settings can have a huge effect on understeer and oversteer,so too can large amounts of camber,google for diff settings,as I've just woke up the only setting I can remember is coast and drive and preload but I'm sure there's another lol,when I've woken up properly I'll give further explanation if need for diffs

    I will add the above is formed from my understanding of goggle and iracing garage tool bar tips,now sometime the tips in iracing were backwards so pls if anyone can point out anything I've got backwards then pls do so,as I'm still obviously learning this too,i may have some stuff wrong but it works for me,well in my mind it does lol
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  4. ebeninca

    ebeninca Registered

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    I suppose you are using the correct steering ratio and degrees of rotation.

    The apex gt mod have some weird physics behavior, if you compare with other sims, like assetto corsa and iracing you will feel the difference. Even the simtek gt3 mod have a better behavior.

    I have tried some thing on the AMG SLS, like use high front spring rate and high front anti-roll bar, to make the car understeer on corner entry.

    This is not a Coast problem, because the car enters on the corner too much when you turn the wheel, not when you lift the brake pedal.

    In the end, it improves a little bit, but not much.

    Other problem is in high speed straight, the steering wheel goes light and the car turn too much making very dangerous to drive.

    i already informed this things on the mod's forum topic.

    My recommendations, if you can, use simtek gt3.
     
  5. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    Simply decrease the steering ratio in the setup menu.
    If that is not enough then increase the wheel rotation in the wheel settings menu.
    The SLS is a different story, it just steers like that because it's very nose heavy.
    High front spring rate suggested above makes me skeptical, stiffening the springs may reduce front end grip mid-corner but it will make the turn-in even better since the stiffer springs load the front tires faster increasing initial turn-in response, so you get the exact opposite effect to what you desire.
    The SLS steering behavior is mostly problematic at high speed where it takes only a very small movement with the steering to upset the rear of the car.
    You get used to it and you have to be precise to go fast anyway.
    Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to test the SLS thoroughly to try any setup ideas on that front.
    Hopefully slowing down the steering is enough.
     
  6. Amarildo Junior

    Amarildo Junior Registered

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    Sorry if I mislead you guys. What I mean by oversteer is not actually the act of the rear of the car trying to get away, but the steering being too sensitive.

    I'll post two videos I made, but first consider this:
    • In a normal steering sensitivity, say I move my wheel 45º, the tires move 2º (fictional number)
    • In those cars mentioned, if I move my wheel 45º, the tires will move 4º
    This makes steering half precise and double more sensitive. It's like driving a car that has 900º of wheel rotation while your wheel is configured for 450º. (Forget about the in-game visuals of the steering wheel, this is about how the tires would react with such sensitivity).

    Now to the videos.

    I took two videos of real-world onboard from a Z4 and an SLS. These will appear first on each video linked here. Each video will be divided in 3 screens: the real-world car on the left ; the Assetto Corsa counterpart on the center ; and the rFactor 2 counterpart on the right.

    As you can see, Assetto Corsa got the setups more correctly if compared to their real world cars. The steering in AC is about half as sensitive as on the cars mentioned for rF2. It's not always like that, so there are some parts (specially on slower corners) where the Z4/SLS for rF2 are not so sensitive. However, the problem is when entering corners and through corners themselves, and everything not-corner-exit. You can clearly see in Eau Rouge how real life and Assetto Corsa are not too different - the same cannot be said about the SLS for rF2 as you can see I barely moved my wheel and almost lost control of the car. This is how sensitive it is.

    I did read about decreasing the wheel ratio and rotation, but wouldn't that make the in-game wheel move half of what my G29 is moving, as if I'm driving a car with a 450º in-game wheel while using 900º on my G29?

    Here are the videos. You can see that while it's easy for the real car and the Assetto Corsa car to turn their wheels 90º, for the most part I must turn only 45º in rF2 with those cars.



     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  7. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    I've had the same experience to some extent I think. Haven't tried Apex mod for a long time though. No problems with URD EGT mod I think. We have our next race in Spa so I will be testing this soon.

    I have my wheel (T500RS) set to 900 degrees, or was it 1080 degrees rotation and I always choose "vehicle set" rotation in game. You should use this too. Should work as indented like that.
     
  8. Ho3n3r

    Ho3n3r Registered

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    Sounds like you're overcomplicating it. Set rotation to max in Logitech Profiler (900), do the same in the game controller menu, and in car setup, put steering lock to lowest. If the mod uses that stupid ratio(22:1 etc.) instead of the logical degrees system, it might need to go the other way. Either way, test both min and max values if that's the case - you'll easily notice which is more sensitive, and which is less.

    If it's still too sensitive then, at least you've eliminated all hardware and game faults, and confirmed it's an incorrect mod.
     
  9. christos_Swc

    christos_Swc Registered

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    "I did read about decreasing the wheel ratio and rotation"
    Increase wheel rotation, decrease wheel ratio.
    So you have to turn the steering wheel more to get the same wheel turning.
    Like I said, the behavior of the SLS in RF2 is related not so much to the steering setup but the nose heavy nature of the car.
    By toning down the steering speed you can try to reduce the problem.
    You can never change the basic character of the car, just make it more manageable.
    We know exactly what you mean and did not mistake your problem for oversteer.
    However, again, the sensitive steering of the SLS at very high speed will cause the rear to lose traction.at the smallest steering input going through an easy sweep where the other cars would not notice.
     
  10. Amarildo Junior

    Amarildo Junior Registered

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    You'll be using the Apex MOD?

    It did work with the G27, but not with the G29. If I set "Vehicle Set", there will always be a mismatch if the car doesn't have 900 degrees of rotation naturally.

    Thanks. What I did was set in Logitech profiler the wheel to 900 degrees, and then un-check "Vehicle Set" in-game. This worked for the Z4! Didn't have to mess with wheel ratio or anything. In fact, I don't even know that the wheel ratio is. Is that the "wheel range (lock)"?

    According to http://steeringlockratiocalculator.com/, this car uses a ratio of 24 by default.

    Initially I did increase my wheel rotation in Logitech software to 900 and disabled "Vehicle Set" in-game. The result was the obvious mismatch between my wheel and the in-game wheel (my turns more in relation to the in-game wheel), and the car was still too sensitive (and that was about half the sensitivity).

    I then reduced the wheel lock to the minimum (8.2) but it's still too sensitive. Tried all settings, from 8.2 to 19, and even with the mismatch between my wheel and the in-game wheel the car would snap on Eau Rouge.

    To me this car is broken, but only at medium to high speeds and near the steering center.
    This behavior is only seen in this MOD AFAIK. The Simtek's GT3 World Series SLS doesn't behave like this, neither the SLS in iRacing or Assetto Corsa, neither the real life SLS. In no other car other than this Apex SLS does 5 degrees of wheel rotation completely break the balance of the car in Eau Rouge or any moderate "curvy straight". It's far from a realistic behavior.
     
  11. patchedupdemon

    patchedupdemon Registered

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    From my understanding you have to set you degs or rotation in Logitech then in game uncheck vehicle set,but then click on the left or right pointers to increase or decrease the degs or rotation.
    Just inchecking it will leave it at the same as it was
     
  12. Amarildo Junior

    Amarildo Junior Registered

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    I did, set both in Logitech and rF2 to 900 degrees. I tried all combos, 900 on Logitech Software and 900 on rF2, 900 and 450, 900 and 240 with the lowest steering lock, and so on.
     
  13. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    No, we are running URD EGT series. Haven't noticed any mismatch while I've been using 900 in profile and always enabled "vehicle set"
     
  14. Amarildo Junior

    Amarildo Junior Registered

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    rFactor 2 works well with the T500, not with the G29.
     
  15. Lu ManiaK

    Lu ManiaK Registered

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    Let me understand your problem...if you turn your wheel (left or right) by 90° you have mismatch in what are you seeing on screen? That is the one and only issue?
     
  16. TIG_green

    TIG_green Registered

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    I understood that the problem isn't so much about the visuals but that the car won't behave as expected if it turns more/less than your physical wheel.
     
  17. Lu ManiaK

    Lu ManiaK Registered

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    So he only need to decrease the wheel range on car setup...
     
  18. Amarildo Junior

    Amarildo Junior Registered

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    Visuals aren't the problem, but the way the rims/tyres/car behave. It's like if in all bicycles you turn the bar 2 degrees and the front tyre will point in the same direction and by the same amount of degrees as the bar (1:1 turn, 2 degrees on both), but the problematic bike's rim/tyre will point twice as much (1:2 turn = 5 degrees in the bike's bar, but 10 degrees in the rim/tyre).

    That's how it feels, the way the cars turn is way too sensitive.

    The problem has been solved in the Z4, but not on the SLS. I don't think it can be solved by anyone other than the MOD creator(s).
     
  19. Lu ManiaK

    Lu ManiaK Registered

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    Ok but did you decrease the wheel range on car setup? AC is the only... "sim" that doesn't allow to do that.
    Are you using default setup?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  20. Ozzy

    Ozzy Registered

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    There was an update to the mod which introduced this behavior on some of the cars. They probably moved to the new steering system and made a mistake somewhere. With the new steering system you have no easy control of the steering ratio anymore. You have to get the steering geometry right. The steering ratios in the setup screen are just Text and don't have to match the actual ratio.
     

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