How to allow same track same mod race?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by MystaMagoo, Oct 20, 2013.

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  1. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...-Forced-Use-of-Bandwidth!!-NO-sit-n-go-Racing!

    It's a very valid point I made in that thread and agreed by most who posted there.
    So I used the solved prefix but it's stated in the title it's NOT solved.

    Could you not remove the prefix or maybe I could as I started the thread?
    To close the thread because of 'misuse' of prefix is rather petty is it not?

    @Denstjiro
    Frustration yes but not because of password filter bug but because of not being able to sit n race :(
    I get your point about over enthusiastic admins but racers wouldn't stay for long if was just 1 track?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2013
  2. Jameswesty

    Jameswesty Registered

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    I think he just wants the threads to remain consistent and organized !

    Just make a new thread called , I don't know

    "Far to frustrating to join public servers - organized content management"

    or something like that.

    I think unless ISI can sort something out then they are going to get allot of user atrophy especially if they were hoping for people to pay a yearly fee to play RF2 multi-player.
     
  3. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    That would be an option but quite a few people posted in that thread with their opinions.
     
  4. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    Its the problem with vmod structure itself. As it is, you need all tracks or you cant install the vmod.

    In any case, as it is said, it is also up to admins. I dont know about other leagues/admins. We pay for our server for hosting our championships. We run a vmod with the next track in the championship so that people can train for next race. We dont really care about casual drivers jumping into any server with some people in. Usually it is problematic to have those kind of people that do not get compromise with any league.
    Maybe there are not sufficient hosts that want to fulfill the conditions of these casual drivers.

    And last. I agree that vmod could be better thought for these casual drivers making it possible to join a server if the active track and required vehicle components are installed. However, it is clear that these kind of people do not show much compromise as the OP demonstrates. He is unable to download the required content to join a session of a server. If he did, he might be able to enjoy for several days with the different tracks in the vmod. Admins do not change the vmod everyday so the effort usually is well rewarded. IMO the attitude typically shown is a bit childish and selfish so I wouldn't pay much attention to it.

    Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk
     
  5. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    It is not that I am unable,it is that downloading tracks uses a significant quota of my monthly allowed bandwidth.
    One server I looked at had 20 components to download :eek:
    If I use up my monthly allowance I can't even race let alone download another track.
    Plus some people have very busy lives and only get maybe 1hr to race.
    They just want to sit down and run some laps with real opposition.
    Not everyone has superfast broadband so downloading some tracks could take a long time.

    You and everyone else has 'opinions' about vmod/rfmod functionality but we are ALL agreed on one thing............

    If one has the correct vehicle components and the same track then one should be able to enter and race on that server.
     
  6. SPASKIS

    SPASKIS Registered

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    I agree with the last as it would be useful as a feature itself. HOWEVER I am not sure if the consequences from it would be good or bad.
    As you say you have one problem which is quite strange IMO nowadays as having a certain amount of MB available unless using a smartphone as connection. You should solve that or assume its consequences. Mentioning a singular case of a vmod had 10 tracks is pointless since it is not the normal case. ISR servers seem to be the best option for you. Your lack of time is a problem of yours as well. If you only have one hour to race you should organize yourself so that you have everything ready for that. But again if you just want to sit and play considering your constraints it is tour oroblem and fault that you dont enjoy rf2.


    Enviado desde mi GT-I9505 usando Tapatalk
     
  7. Empty Box

    Empty Box Registered

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    Metered bandwidth isn't strange, if I'm not mistaken it's very common in the Aus/NZ part of the world.

    For me it just comes down to the fact I don't like "meh" content, and a large portion of the stuff out there is simply put not worth my time. I don't want to download a quick conversion of whatever circuit that traces it's legacy back to GPL, I don't want to install it, I want nothing to do with it. If I wanted that content, I'd have already installed that content. That simple. I've installed the tracks that I want and that meet the quality I desire, if someone is running that combo I should be able to join no questions asked. Makes no sense at all to download another car / track just so I can enjoy what I already have. Metered bandwidth or not, it's an idea that makes me question if they even play their own game it's that silly - it's trying to reinvent the wheel, just like the mod system in general was that they've now taken steps away from.

    If anything, this would be a great area to pick up on the FPS genre way of doing things, when a server goes to map you don't have, it downloads for you. If you have the map, you join seemlessly. Switch to a custom map, it downloads. Until then though, you have nothing you didn't choose to install.
     
  8. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    mentioning that singular case was not pointless it was just a 'point' in case of being made to 'download' ALL that content just to race on that server.
    that was a bit of an extreme 'case' I pointed out to try to emphasize the problem.
    if the 1hr window was a set time one could easily organise ones self but being a Family man and caring for children...............
    but you seem to have maybe missed the point.
    doesn't matter if the server has 2 tracks or 100,if I don't have those particular tracks I can't join.

    no-one said I didn't enjoy rF2?

    If I don't have the next track I should be given the options to download or get kicked.
     
  9. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    I agree..... some "leeway" with the vmods needs to be given. The server already knows the track list so getting the user to download the current (or current plus next) should help. I also dislike the whole idea of downloading the entire contents of a vmod before even getting as far as the steering wheel.

    Changes do need to be made, make rf2 a little more approachable.
     
  10. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    You can't rename this thread yourself btw Mysta?


    Well, yes and no. 1-track servers can be quite successful. It depends on how the server is setup and what the purpose is but the good thing is we have options. and we have been demanding them as well.


    With these options we can set things up as we please. Like Spaksis League not concerned with random joiners, so they set their server up as it serves their members best.
    For our league we use 3 different server profiles which are run by an auto scheduler. so we run 2 profiles during the week, 1mod/1-track for public practise and club events, because easy access is a great recruiting tool.
    The 3rd profile is the official event, locked and loaded and we can fill it up as we please because members will already have all content.

    Two different approaches already in this thread and God knows how many configurations are out there. because we can. and that's important as well.

    But yeah, my vote would go to join when you got 'current' content.
    kicked when changing track and/or enter the queue for auto-download and return automatically. I bet people are more willing to wait for a 1 track download then they are willing to wait for 6 tracks to be installed. I would leave anyways even if it would work without errors.

    Plus the added benefit of decreasing server loads on auto downloads. I doubt many public servers will have external downloads setup in the mod, so they rely on direct downloads, that's gonna effect things I reckon? racing with 20 and having 8 in queue downloading directly. surely that effects lag, fps or packets for those racing?
    1-track joins would mean most of practise peeps are dripping in but far less of a strain on the server?
    That's just logic on my part btw, not 100% sure it would work that way.


    @Spaskis its not just Mysta's bandwidth limits though, it does take some persistence to successfully join a server and it go's with quite a few errors, failed installs, broken vmods and long waiting times (if its a list of items) before entering something that actually works.
    Its a mix of reasons of course including novice admins, wrong choices and different approaches, but also system-issues. And that's the main issue here for me anyways. It should be possible to make it a bit easier and limit some of the pitfalls.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2013
  11. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Also considering the subject is 90% of the impression a thread has (the same way a news story puts across it's headline, not the facts of the article), I would have thought it in his interests to do things properly, and closing it shows I have zero tolerance for such tactics as those used, in the hope of not getting a repeat. :)
     
  12. stonec

    stonec Member

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    I don't agree that it would be a huge issue to download a couple of tracks versus downloading a single track before join. As I wrote in the previous thread I find it only an issue if we start to speak about tens of tracks or more, which is a matter of server admins to set things up properly.

    Now what is an issue is that autodownload of components is not being offered on almost any server at moment (only ISI content have autodownload enabled by default). But again, server admins are largely to blame for this. There is for example a detailed guide by Noel Hibbard of how to create component external links that rF2 accepts. I've no idea why admins ignore this, it's not rocket science. Anyway, ISI are partly to blame as well for not providing better instructions for this. There should really be a guide on the home page for this, as not having autodownload of content is one of the main reason why servers are empty atm.
     
  13. Denstjiro

    Denstjiro Registered

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    Noel's excellent guide and tools might scare people away whom just want a quick host or are not as dedicated as communities are.
    Its not rocket science indeed but it is one more thing that needs to be dived into. for non-league admins it just another hurdle of quite a few (both as admin and as user) so I wont be surprised if people are already happy a server is actually functioning with less effort.

    League admins, especially those with locked servers, have other means to distribute content, external d/l links would be cherry on the cake for them(?)
    We intend to use it because we use the server as a recruiting tool but we don't really have to as traffic during weekday's practise is never as demanding as the official events.
    In general though, league admins are used to the more complex issues and often have other admins and members backing them up. But when it comes to casual/pickup servers it might be a different story.

    I'm no tech guy but I do wonder why those external links have to be inside the actual mod instead of adding them to a vmod?
    It might sound contradicting to my previous ranting about making vmods etc easier to use but external download links inside vmods seem to be more logical in the sense that its much easier to add/change/update?
    Atm we would be relying on mod-makers to add download links to a mod and I don't think they do. hence Noel's tools. But its the same with tracks and cutting corners, if we rely on track creators to fix the cutting for us it wont be fixed in most cases, we need ISI to take that part out of the equation for us all and provide something peeps can work with.

    But again, not a tech guy so could be totally off on d/l links into vmods.
     
  14. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    Can I make a 'poll' thread for this implementation?
    Do you know if it's in ISI's plans to implement this feature?

    I found all servers to be offering getmod that I tried?
    But of course it's an issue to be made to download tracks to be able to join a server.
     
  15. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Only ISI content (that I have seen) will easily download, as others haven't followed Noel's instructions to share them. If you join a server running ISI mods only, you SHOULD be able to download the vMod and the content being referenced without any issue if the server is setup to let you get the vMod.

    Regarding a poll, it's already been asked, debated, voted and counted, passed on and discussed.
     
  16. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    GetMod is sort of a two stage process. The first stage is to autodownload the vmod. The second stage is the "Get Missing Components" button. Almost all servers implement the first stage (it is the default now) but almost no modders are including proper download URLs in their components and most leagues and casual hosters aren't bothering to repackage rfcmps to include their own download URL.

    We really need the ability to override the GetMod URL from the rfcmps and put in our own GetMod link when building a vmod. People could then register an account on my service and then simply register the submit IDs for everything they want to host without actually having to repackage stuff.
     
  17. Noel Hibbard

    Noel Hibbard Registered

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    The only mods I know of that are GetMod enabled are BES, Aintree and Essington Park v1.04. There are a few hosters that I have seen repackaging stuff for their own servers too.... but not many.
     
  18. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    I'm frankly hoping we'll see a massive reduction in car repackaging once car skins and AI are out of the rfcmp file. leagues won't need to do it anymore, they can simply share a carset (and obviously still have the download opponent skins option within the servers).
     
  19. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    Personally I've had a few problems downloading vmods etc to join a server but in the most it's been quite successful.
    Regarding the poll do you mean the 'should be able to join if I have same mod and track'?

    I didn't start the thread to discuss merits of vmods/rfmods.
    It was started to air my frustration of being made to download extra content just to be able to join the server.

    One solution was to create vmod of just 1 track but doing it this way could/would create a huge server list of 1 track servers.

    If this issue has already been "asked, debated, voted and counted, passed on and discussed" was there an outcome?
    Is there an ISI stance on this matter?
     
  20. 88mphTim

    88mphTim Staff Member

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    Well, apart from downloading a 1MB maximum vMod when the server enables it, what is stopping you from joining if you have the car and track being raced? It's the server using a vMod which references content they're not using, that you don't have? That's essentially been the outcome of discussion on this, that hosting of that type isn't really beneficial, though I don't see why it would create 1 track servers unless things are completely hands off for those races by admin choice, nor why that is essentially a bad thing. I certainly don't have the time to learn every track, does anyone? That's one thing I will certainly use to purposely NOT change content too much when ISI are running servers for multiplayer, because frankly allowing people to learn a car and a track over perhaps a week might improve the racing on those tracks (and yes, we'll be hosting servers ourselves quite soon, 4-5 of them, running same content for a week before switching).

    Doesn't mean you can't discuss it again (and that wasn't the reason for your first thread being closed, if you still wondered, it was the [solved] play you made), or disagree with me on this. The stance is that the system works as-is, when used as-should. At least as it is, you avoid the mismatches, etc, especially during this time where there can be a new version of a single mod every week.
     
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