How deep are their pockets ?

DaVeX said:
+1
Marketing isn't needed in PC Sims as for PC/Consolle Sims. AC, PC, Forza even if different each other need to promote themselves in order to appeal customers from both sides (PC/Consolle), pure PC Sims rely on fidelity of physic model (rF2, AMS, DCS), more they "simulate" more people play them...
rF2 needs to fill the content gap with other titles to be more attractive for newcomers (and give us some serious stuff to race) but it also needs to refine is physic model and to simulate the most possible of real life racing (I hope it reaches the same levels of details you can see on some flight simulations) to be the genre"reference".
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Marketing is or "isn't"?
As long as its positive, marketing will always be important for anything to grow.
 
I mean,there are 2 different kinds of marketing...
PC/Consolle sims battle each others mainly on content and graphics...lots of promotional videos, testimonials, etc...
PC only sims push on physics and how much and deep they simulate real life races...this ones (like AMS and rF2) rely on leagues, users, etc to spread the quality of the software between the people interested in simracing...
In both cases content has a great influence in order to survive in the market but it hasn't the same role, for PC/Consolle is the main focus for PC only not...

English isn't my main language and I am sweating trying to explain what I think lol
 
Well you did well explaining your thoughts.
Physics should definitely be first and advertised for a Sim but visuals of pCars in a Sim (if it could match rF2) should also be advertised.
What is this DirectX 11 upgrade really doing? Improving visuals on two fronts, visuals of game play and UI as well as a performance improvement not a physics upgrade really.
So all this work S397 has/is doing needs to be shown to the world because even though its a "Sim" even arcade races will buy a product as long as it is assessable and user friendly.
I think as GPU performance improves and prices drop there is no excuse for
1: a software looking like it was made 10 years ago
2: still having a PC that cant run high settings at 1080p at least.
I mean $200 for a 1060 /480.
 
2ndLastJedi said:
What is this DirectX 11 upgrade really doing? Improving visuals on two fronts, visuals of game play and UI as well as a performance improvement not a physics upgrade really.
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It is also ticking the box for VR capability. Lack of VR capability has become a liability for marketing a game.
 
Its funny how AC and rF did the exact opposite.
rF: Great physics, no gfx (dx9)
AC: Beautiful, but no physics.
IMO, the biggest thing rF2 lacks is content.
And the biggest thing AC lacks is a tyre model.
Personally, Ive been impressed with SMS since NFS Shift. I honestly bought rF2 because of the tyre model. If iRacing didnt require you to be a millionaire to enjoy more than 2 cars and 3 tracks I would probably own that too.
Everyone's complaint about PCars seems to be ffb... I wonder how many actually tried to configure their own... Sure its inconvenient, and a lot of guesswork until it felt right, and going from GT to OW required some adjustments, but it was miles ahead of AC(again, my opinion)
Lets not forget that PCars was advertised as a "By racers, for racers" simulator. Forza and Gran Turismo are nice and all, but if you can navigate a clean and decently quick lap with a controller/gamepad, its not a true sim(people also complained they sucked at PCars with xbox/ps controllers, I did too ;)). If you dont even have a tyre model at all(AC), this day and age, not really much of a simulator to me either.
And DX11? Performance increase? Not yet... Ive yet to read of someone with better FPS at the same settings, even with plugins/post-processing/v-sync all disabled. Looks pretty for sure, but it doesnt make me any faster. ;) If anything DX11 is a downgrade, on account of the loss of real time telemetry from plugins like TrackMap(single display & no tablet for the "workaround"). However, if this is a part of the new UI, I would actually consider it(dx11) as positive progress. Although, DX11/VR = more sales, more sales = more $ for development of content.

Long story short, you can never please everyone.

As far as Pcars 2 is considered, SMS is putting a massive effort into it, and I will be surprised if it is anything short of enjoyable.

Cheers,
rocket
 
I don't see ac as being beautiful at all, car models are great but tracks are a bit ordinary. I would really like to see rf2 improve the crowds though, they look crap as cardboard cutouts.
 
rocketjockeyr6 said:
Its funny how AC and rF did the exact opposite.
rF: Great physics, no gfx (dx9)
AC: Beautiful, but no physics.
IMO, the biggest thing rF2 lacks is content.
And the biggest thing AC lacks is a tyre model.
Personally, Ive been impressed with SMS since NFS Shift. I honestly bought rF2 because of the tyre model. If iRacing didnt require you to be a millionaire to enjoy more than 2 cars and 3 tracks I would probably own that too.
Everyone's complaint about PCars seems to be ffb... I wonder how many actually tried to configure their own... Sure its inconvenient, and a lot of guesswork until it felt right, and going from GT to OW required some adjustments, but it was miles ahead of AC(again, my opinion)
Lets not forget that PCars was advertised as a "By racers, for racers" simulator. Forza and Gran Turismo are nice and all, but if you can navigate a clean and decently quick lap with a controller/gamepad, its not a true sim(people also complained they sucked at PCars with xbox/ps controllers, I did too ;)). If you dont even have a tyre model at all(AC), this day and age, not really much of a simulator to me either.
And DX11? Performance increase? Not yet... Ive yet to read of someone with better FPS at the same settings, even with plugins/post-processing/v-sync all disabled. Looks pretty for sure, but it doesnt make me any faster. ;) If anything DX11 is a downgrade, on account of the loss of real time telemetry from plugins like TrackMap(single display & no tablet for the "workaround"). However, if this is a part of the new UI, I would actually consider it(dx11) as positive progress. Although, DX11/VR = more sales, more sales = more $ for development of content.

Long story short, you can never please everyone.

As far as Pcars 2 is considered, SMS is putting a massive effort into it, and I will be surprised if it is anything short of enjoyable.

Cheers,
rocket
Click to expand...
Well i have a CSW v2 but can also pretty much lap within 1 second of that using a DS4 on rF2 and have a harder in AC with the pad . Go figure .
 
Oh man, people comparing a product that tries to compete with Forza and Gran Tourismo with a tiny little niche product that is very sophisticated and extremely complicated for the average Joe. How do you explain, that SMS tries to ship 140 cars in the same time, when S397/ISI shipped something like 5(?)-ish cars. Laziness? Lack of Ressources or skill? Or maybe it's something else that I won't speak out loud. But looking back at PCars 1, it's agressive marketing and what it was at the end, I am opting for the latter. In addition to that, I would like some of you guys to read the 2017 F1 Fan Survey. There is a nice little statistic of what the fans actually play the most, and it's not looking good for the sims. Leading product is F1 2016, wich was a nice game but lets be honest - it is not a simulation in the sense of rF2, AMS, AC or R3E. A few years ago a person called Antony Davidson made quite a lot of advertisement for the Codies F1 games, so this should tell you what you can expect from the video shown in the OP. McLaren needs money aswell, so don't be illusional. As I read it, people aren't interested in technology these days. What bothers them most is, if the game hooks them in the first five minutes with it's flashy graphics, if it has "real tracks", "real cars" and "real drivers", even if those are just a pile of polygons, textures and json.files and if Lewis Hamilton has posted a pic of his ugly dog on twitter.

And how is this connected to rFactor 2? I don't know, but the best thing that S397 can do is to rely on their own strength and improve on the weekpoints and fill their own niche. Better marketing (so no pics with headless drivers :D), more polishing and better content alignment is needed for sure.
 
rocketjockeyr6 said:
Its funny how AC and rF did the exact opposite.
rF: Great physics, no gfx (dx9)
AC: Beautiful, but no physics.
IMO, the biggest thing rF2 lacks is content.
And the biggest thing AC lacks is a tyre model.
Personally, Ive been impressed with SMS since NFS Shift. I honestly bought rF2 because of the tyre model. If iRacing didnt require you to be a millionaire to enjoy more than 2 cars and 3 tracks I would probably own that too.
Everyone's complaint about PCars seems to be ffb... I wonder how many actually tried to configure their own... Sure its inconvenient, and a lot of guesswork until it felt right, and going from GT to OW required some adjustments, but it was miles ahead of AC(again, my opinion)
Lets not forget that PCars was advertised as a "By racers, for racers" simulator. Forza and Gran Turismo are nice and all, but if you can navigate a clean and decently quick lap with a controller/gamepad, its not a true sim(people also complained they sucked at PCars with xbox/ps controllers, I did too ;)). If you dont even have a tyre model at all(AC), this day and age, not really much of a simulator to me either.
And DX11? Performance increase? Not yet... Ive yet to read of someone with better FPS at the same settings, even with plugins/post-processing/v-sync all disabled. Looks pretty for sure, but it doesnt make me any faster. ;) If anything DX11 is a downgrade, on account of the loss of real time telemetry from plugins like TrackMap(single display & no tablet for the "workaround"). However, if this is a part of the new UI, I would actually consider it(dx11) as positive progress. Although, DX11/VR = more sales, more sales = more $ for development of content.

Long story short, you can never please everyone.

As far as Pcars 2 is considered, SMS is putting a massive effort into it, and I will be surprised if it is anything short of enjoyable.

Cheers,
rocket
Click to expand...
WMD-Pcars2 viral marketing too strong in your post. And AC has no tyre model? The cars drive on what then? Try a little harder next time please and thank you for your effort! :)
Those need for speed games from SMS were the epitome of simulation, the tyre model on nfs:shift 1 and 2 were top of the line! And AC has no tyre model... :)
So because it was hard to drive in Pcars1 with a gamepad it means is a great simulator? Nothing to do with bad implementation of gamepad controls?
 
hitm4k3r said:
Oh man, people comparing a product that tries to compete with Forza and Gran Tourismo with a tiny little niche product that is very sophisticated and extremely complicated for the average Joe. How do you explain, that SMS tries to ship 140 cars in the same time, when S397/ISI shipped something like 5(?)-ish cars. Laziness? Lack of Ressources or skill? Or maybe it's something else that I won't speak out loud. But looking back at PCars 1, it's agressive marketing and what it was at the end, I am opting for the latter. In addition to that, I would like some of you guys to read the 2017 F1 Fan Survey. There is a nice little statistic of what the fans actually play the most, and it's not looking good for the sims. Leading product is F1 2016, wich was a nice game but lets be honest - it is not a simulation in the sense of rF2, AMS, AC or R3E. A few years ago a person called Antony Davidson made quite a lot of advertisement for the Codies F1 games, so this should tell you what you can expect from the video shown in the OP. McLaren needs money aswell, so don't be illusional. As I read it, people aren't interested in technology these days. What bothers them most is, if the game hooks them in the first five minutes with it's flashy graphics, if it has "real tracks", "real cars" and "real drivers", even if those are just a pile of polygons, textures and json.files and if Lewis Hamilton has posted a pic of his ugly dog on twitter.

And how is this connected to rFactor 2? I don't know, but the best thing that S397 can do is to rely on their own strength and improve on the weekpoints and fill their own niche. Better marketing (so no pics with headless drivers :D), more polishing and better content alignment is needed for sure.
Click to expand...

Games such as rF2, AMS and iRacing are never going to appeal to the masses in a manner that PCars, Forza and Codemasters' F1 franchise can. Us 'hardcore' simracers are here for the immersion and realism, though we must accept that sim racing is a niche market at the minute, a growing one no doubt, but still niche. For me, at best, PCars 1 was simcade, like many others I've only seen videos and screenshots of PCars 2; I have no idea how realistic it is. However, when you have a game courting 140 cars I'm sceptical as to whether the same attention to detail will be garnished over every car.
 
By tyre model I mean CPM. Not the 3d model. ;)
And I never said any NFS was a sim at all, just that I was impressed with Shift. At the time, I had yet to see a game that had the tyres flex around as you hit bumps/kerbs and squat as you go though corners. And for a "video game" in 2009, that was impressive. Also I think they had the best helmet view, and the way it looked to the apex was well done too.

PCars1 had terrible gamepad implementation, no denying that. But the way it was marketed kind of ruled out gamepads, IMO. And what good is a sim with a gamepad? Sort of defeats the purpose, no?

hitm4k3r: I have to agree with about 99% of your post. I could be absolutely wrong, but I do believe that SMS/WMD have more resources/bigger team than ISI did, no clue how big 397 is though. And ISI definitely spent a ton more time perfecting physics than SMS, unarguable.

I could never expect something like PCars2 to be on the level of rFactor or iRacing, but I do expect that it will be better than anything else currently available, AC included. And I wouldnt expect any car in PCars 2 to have the level of details/realism as that McLaren, they advertised that one for a reason, and it will most likely be their cover car.

How is this connected to rFactor? Im not sure either... but at least it was posted in the Off-topic section. ;)
And the original post was about PCars2, and the forum is for rFactor, so I guess I saw some dots and drew some lines. XD

Cheers all
rocket
 
LFS_d_2008-03-09_15-26-15-75.jpg
 
jeffers said:
Games such as rF2, AMS and iRacing are never going to appeal to the masses
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Because the mass does not even know what rF2, AMS and iRacing are :)
I'm 100% sure that who plays GT, PjC, F1, Forza etc want to play the most simulation possible, they want to play and imagine to be in a real car with the best immersion and realism, simply they don't know nothing about rF2, AMS and iRacing or they think the graphic is ugly, so no worth it.
This is just my thoughts based on my friends and motorsport fans i met.
 
krusti said:
Because the mass does not even know what rF2, AMS and iRacing are :)
I'm 100% sure that who plays GT, PjC, F1, Forza etc want to play the most simulation possible, they want to play and imagine to be in a real car with the best immersion and realism, simply they don't know nothing about rF2, AMS and iRacing or they think the graphic is ugly, so no worth it.
This is just my thoughts based on my friends and motorsport fans i met.
Click to expand...

Krusti you're absolutely right. I accidentally stumbled upon iRacing, which took me to AMS and eventually brought me here. These sims are getting better in their attempts at marketing their products, but its nowhere near the level of pCars 2 for instance.
 
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