Discussion in 'Third Party Content' started by call-911, Jul 30, 2012.
It is back here now.
Heh the joys of the internet...
Rfc = greed
Anyone else getting the Invisible IFrame Injection virus warning on rfCentral? Unable to access it for the last week.
Yes, AVG gives me a warning about rFC
Is not this site even better? meaning iSi site..???
Until there are no more than a few mods only.. yes.
Personally i prefer f1 classic, drivingitalia and this forum.
F1Classic, just THE forum with ripping conversion from Forza, GSC, Shift 2, on which Admins think be above all rules...
...or completely removing entire leagues from its userbase for no apparent reason.
Dude, your facts are skewed. We have many rules. We have many conversions from commercial games, true, but we demand a six month exclusion for new releases. So this alone does not place us above all rules as you state. We allow the use of modders work, but we DEMAND full credit be given, we also encourage permissions, but we all know some guys never give permission regardless of the skill or quality of the work. Lets not go down the semantics road again - it is a old and boring subject.
I ask you to find ANY link to GSC content, there has been none yet. To find that you have to go elsewhere. We all know that as soon as something is released to the public, someone will rip it and put it into something else. The entire modding world lives on hacking commercial software, the companies know this too. A disk check does not make a mod like Historix or Power & Glory "legal" as it is still a contravention of the UELA. The ripping, converting etc is tolerated by most developers simply because the costs associated with prosecuting everyone is prohibitive. Not just the monetary costs, but the community goodwill also.
Sorry to everyone for dragging this old chestnut out, but I hate it when someone tells false stories.
Don't try to justify your actions. Your as screwed up as the people who make those conversions. Because of people like you and sites like yours, all these people who rip others hard work off get a forum to release all that crap. Just because you encourage permissions or ask that a 6 month grace be placed on new titles doesn't make it right and your delusional if you think it does.
Your breaking the terms and conditions set within all those games, your breaking copyright laws, and your disrespecting every developer and modder whose work has been ripped and posted on your site by a member of your site. Last time I checked developers of games and mods have the right to deny permission if they choose to without fearing their work being ripped by some loser who is too lazy to learn how to do it himself.
Your idea of the modding community living on hacking commercial games is a tossa. Games like F1 2002, F1 Challenge, rFactor, rFactor 2, GTR2 were made to be moddable and are modded in the very way they have been allowed to be modded by the developers. You don't see any of the developers of any of those games complaining about the mods. All they complain about is when their work is ripped.
You have absolutely no clue how the laws work in modding so don't try to act like you know the laws of modding because you and your site are breaking nearly every law not only in the respectable part of the modding world, but also in the commercial world.
Everyone has an opinion. Yours is just different to mine. Not going to continue this as it will just keep going round in circles.
As for hacking - explain GPL mods.
I cannot speak for the GPL mods because...
1) I've never liked GPL or played it more then a couple times.
2) I've never downloaded any GPL mods or know of any
3) I've never followed the GPL community.
If the developers of GPL don't want it to be modded, then its up to them to have mods taken down, the mod groups are doing wrong by modding a game which the developers don't want modded. But that doesn't amount to the entire modding world. Simbin and ISI have been avid supporters of modding by making their games moddable, not in the sense of supporting what mods were being made. But they had no issue with modders expanding their game. Now if you ask me about GPL or NFS mods even, mod groups who mod those games are wrong to do so in my view because the developers didn't want them to be modded nor made them with intention for them to be modded.
So saying the entire modding world lives for hacking games is wrong. Look at groups like CTDP, Virtua_LM, LMT, and many others who mod GTR2, rF1, rF2, Race07, including my group. We don't go modding games which are not intended to be modded. You don't see us wasting time with NFS or GPL or a game which is not intended to be modded. We stick to the games which are moddable because we respect the developers decision.
While it is very annoying that some games are not moddable, it is what it is and we have to respect that and continue modding to our hearts content the games which are moddable.
You opinion differs from mine sure, but ask yourself how you would feel if you worked hard on something and someone ripped it off and put it elsewhere. You'd be pissed just as much as all of us are when members of your site rip any of the work done by any developer, commercial or modding.
Its easy for you to allow that type of conduct, but even easier for you to have decent morals and respect to the hard workers who produce the content and not allow such people to have a place to post ripped work.
Anyhow, I don't want this to drag on and on. We will clearly disagree till the world ends most likely so there is no real use in arguing. But that's my two cents on the matter. Some people in this community need to learn better morals. This community has gotten things for free for so long that they think they can just have everything for free and do whatever they want and honestly...its just not on anymore guys.
Hacking and modding are two different things even when the end result might be same. Hacking means of altering the closed game code, while modding is altering the open file system. Papyrus has been VERY strict with their policy of hacking their games, but they generally approve modding. I don't know GPL culture, but if there has been .EXE hacking it should be considered to be quite illegal. I remember some mod groups getting sued by Papyrus when they hacked NASCAR Racing 2003 executables.
Exactly, hacking an exe even on a game like rfactor or rfactor2 which is moddable is for me wrong. A modder should have the respect and decency to go to the developer and ask. Even if they know 100% they will say no, have the decency to ask and if they do say no, have the respect to not follow through with your plans. A developer of any product only wants to protect their work in a way that doesn't get them sued and doesn't degrade the view of their company's products in the eyes of the industry due to allowing such hacks. Developers aim for the utmost quality in their work regardless if we the target audience see their product as utmost quality or not. But what you said is exactly right, hacking the exe's is quite illegal even on a moddable game unless the developer says its ok.
Encourage permissions... It is obligatory....
It's just like your community that discourages the modders. After that, you said "Yes but you don't have any respect for us"... because we don't communicate about our work. But why don't we communicate about that? I propose that you think about that...
But I know the reply : " We have respect for modders, you demand a complete Read Me"
Even if the dev does, there's usually still issues. All those licensing deals are only OK within ISIs release of rFactor2, this includes audio clips we licensed, audio plugins, any redists which require a license, logos, liveries, names, etc. The instant you release your own EXE, even with dev approval, you instantly become a software publisher. That's a far riskier side of modding. All it takes is one person savvy enough to know their brand (which in the GPL example, few are).
Anyway, the discussion can only go around in circles. Unless somebody has something truly new to say I'd let it be and move onto something else.
Hmmm looks like I will let my rFC subsription expire as I have already stopped adding content for Simraceway after seeing their $35.00 cars plus it not as good a driving sim.
What is legal and ilegal content in modding our days??!! As far as i know even scratch made models and mods are ilegal, see the example of Porsche cup by Enduracers....... The diference of convertions and scratch made models by the modding community dont have big diference in fact! the only diference i really see is that one is able to replicate the model and the other dont have the skills to do it!! At the end bought are ilegal for diferent reasons with a common issue.........copyright infringements!!
I also think convertions are a nice way to start modding in a serious way, learning how things are done and starting learning how to modeling a 3d object.
Ripping or using well known community modding work without autorization will always cause moral issues, i think people must respect their work and only use comercial content from other games!!!
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