How are you finding replayability with RF2...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by msportdan, Mar 20, 2015.

  1. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    Ive scoured a lot of sim forums, and although Rf2 has set the benchmark for race sims. I have found a trend that, people do tend to come away from rf2 for long periods of time, for whatever reason this may be there must be a reason why. Lack of season mode, tracks cars, modes etc etc for example.

    i wont lie i spent hours with the F2 at symmons last nite, and was fun, but just wondering how long i just can quick race for!

    Im asking you guys , how do you find replayability offline in RF2...? this is a question im interested....not flame bait or whatever some of you call it.
    Dan
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2015
  2. Bjørn

    Bjørn Registered

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    I find it fine... But I also have a group of people I can race with casually, almost every single day. I don't race much offline.
     
  3. hexagramme

    hexagramme Member

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    I think the problem is that most people are looking for typical "game features" in a piece of software that doesn't aspire to become a typical "game" in any way, shape or form.
    It is a racing simulator, and a very pure one at that.

    It has to do with people's attention span I guess.
    Unless some people have features that artificially keep them engaged, like a championship mode for instance, they quickly lose interest.
    Simply being on track in a car, focusing on race craft, driving technique, adapting to ever changing track conditions, working on car setup, battling side by side with either the magnificent AI or talented online racers, it just isn't enough for some it seems. To each his own.

    To me the replayability of rF2 is off the charts. I need to get my rF2 fix each and every day.
    I have far from tried out every ISI track/car combination, and with all the 3rd party content I could be trying out new combinations for decades it seems.

    IMO what more people should do is choose a track, a car, and just stick with it until everything clicks. The reward is huge if you do so.

    This isn't - and shouldn't be - a plug and play title. The market is already plenty full of those games.

    I hope one day people will realise that they can't get closer to real racing, without actually racing irl, than this sim right here.
    The artificially added "immersion" (scripted physics, ridiculous show-off gfx bling, story modes, overly flashy presentation, what have you) of other titles actually hinders the player from experiencing anything even close to reality. It's all just flashy distractions made by developers because they haven't a clue how to create proper physics, force feedback and realistic racing conditions imho.

    The trick in rF2 is that you just need to stick with it.
    Keep working your driving style for each car, keep working the setup, perfecting racing lines etc.
    But many people believe that all games should simply be empowering, make them feel like heroes and world champions right from the get-go.
    Some people are too proud to accept the fact that they will - and must - suck for a period of time after starting out in a proper sim like this.
    They will load up a track, spin at the first corner, and then simply blame the sim. "Like driving on ice" and ridiculous nonsense like that.
    Look within, instead of blaming the software for your shortcomings.

    I sucked too, badly, for a long time, while climbing one of the steepest learning curves I have ever had to climb.
    But the reward for doing so is like nothing else!

    I don't need an animated trophy made of gold, or a piece of text saying "YOU DID IT, YOU'RE WORLD CHAMPION at the end of a race to keep me engaged. ;)

    All IMHO of course :)
     
  4. Rich Goodwin

    Rich Goodwin Registered

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    I am one of the people that left rFactor 2 for a period, some time a go though. I played for a while and it didn't have enough of a polish for me. I thought "You know what, this is in development, I'll come back to it later". I did the same with Assetto Corsa too. I think it's always good to take a step back, be objective and know titles like this are in development (even if not tagged Beta or early access) so as not to destroy possible future enjoyment.

    But anyway, Replayability. Offline I tend to do when I want to chill out. Maybe once or twice a week. I pick an interesting combo and go with it for an evening. The AI are certainly good enough to provide a fulfilling challenge and the driving experience in general is second to none.

    I do feel offline could be fleshed out, so to speak. A custom championship creator as standard, tool tips on garage options (A lot of people drive offline before venturing online, this could help them understand setups a bit before they make the jump). But in general the offline in rFactor 2 is as replayable as any sim I can think of.

    I would rather the ISI guys spent time on the sim in general than waste their time with a generic offline "Career" like Kunos did with AC. It's simply a waste of resource to provide something so shallow and unfulfilling.
     
  5. P.S.R.

    P.S.R. Registered

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    I began to struggle almost immediately after my online racing career ended. I need challenging and relevant goals (http://isiforums.net/f/showpost.php?p=347249), context, progression, and to feel a connection and be able to compare myself to other sim racers in order for sim racing to have purpose and meaning.

    Psychologically, sim racers are quite diverse, however. Some see a combo as a puzzle and can spend weeks hotlapping alone squeezing every millisecond they can and spending most of their sim racing time with analysis. Others can race one off race after one off race without any connection to each other because they don't have a need for context. Still others can find meaning in career modes while others find anything other than benchmarking against humans meaningless.

    It took me a while to understand what motivates me and turns out what motivates me in sim racing are the same things that motivate IRL.

    While possibly not for everyone, I created Simmunity to help close the gap between online racing and offline racing at least a little bit by facilitating solo private offline championships for context and enabling drivers to share mutual experiences and compete against each other by comparing individual performances against AI under identical conditions. Again, not for everyone but might help add some meaning for you.
     
  6. williang83

    williang83 Registered

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    This statement couldn't be more wrong. Rfactor 2 IS NOT a racing simulator but a DRIVING SIMULATOR and even the most pure one. Why? Because racing means everything that remind a race from free practice to race and everything is chained among them (tire stints, engine/mechanical preservation, weather, etc...). Does rFactor 2 (even the first one) ever offered even one of this stuff? Never (except for single session without any relationship to others if not for qualify carrying grid to race).
    rFactor 2 is a very good driving simulator because it does try to simulate as much as it can the car behavior and response of a car to both internal and external factors. But again as i already said, it does not even try to simulate any aspect of a racing (which is kind a bad thing that all modern simulators have, even combat flight simulators that does not simulate a war environment).
    I hope that this ugly era will be overtaken soon so we can again have full simulators and not half simulators full of unfinished features/bugs (in overall and not specifically talking about rfactor).
     
  7. williang83

    williang83 Registered

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    Btw, i find funny how people call racing features or war environment features (in case of combat flight simulators) gaming features (almost meaning arcadish).....really? I guess that a lot of people around the world use game features in real world with their realistic car every weekend.
     
  8. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    What in the world are you talking about?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2015
  9. deak1944

    deak1944 Guest

    I do not understand what you are trying to say. Could you please go into more detail?
     
  10. Pilot37

    Pilot37 Registered

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    I'm never sure what the point of a career "mode" is. As far back as racing sims go I just drew up my own personal careers using excel spreadsheets (essential when in the bad old days the AI ended most races for you!) This allows me total flexibility to change anything I want. I would rather the developers bring new tacks and cars and physics, the rest you can imagine / chalk up for yourself?

    I haven't tried online racing yet but I will. A house free from interruptions is rare here!

    I only wish I had enough free time for replayability to become a problem :-/
     
  11. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    yeah i sorta see what hes saying. Simulating is supposed to be replicating real life to a point isnt it. MotorSPORT isnt SPORT without competition. but also i would want the devs not to forget about the depth of RF2 (physics AI etc) its just a shame it has all this without the "sport aspect of racing"

    its sort of like FIFA without a premier league, or Basketball without the NBA league..

    Im sure they aim for online only really, where leagues etc come into their own.

    and its nothing really to do with attentino span, as i sat there for hours last nite with the f2s at one track racing the ai and enjoying it...but...

    that will only last so long before you require more depth. its human nature to seek more.
     
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  12. PRC Steve

    PRC Steve Registered

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    @ Hex
    Very good sum up and totally agree.
    @ Willing83
    That is the biggest piece of nonsense I have ever read on this forum.
     
  13. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

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    Doesn't simulate them all, but simulates some, that other software never did.

    What it also does is providing a platform that can be extended. The connection between sessions that you mentioned was (to some extent) possible even in rFactor 1, but not in the software itself, but at the level of league organization. rFactor only provided necessary facilities to make that happen (plugin system, exports, admin commands, etc.). I think motec plugin or spotter plugin are fine examples.

    If you look at real road feature, you will notice that it also provides connection between sessions, since league admins and offline players can experience real road evolution through multiple sessions - a feature you will find nowhere else at the moment.

    So it's getting there, but Rome wasn't built in one day :)

    I think it's true for any simulator out there. These are pretty complex pieces of software and you will get the most of them when you get accustomed to them.
    Especially rFactor / rFactor 2 are rich in possibilities, but it will take some time, before community learns to extract them.
     
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  14. I3bullets

    I3bullets Registered

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    I like rF2's atmosphere. I think it captures the "reality of a racing event" more closely than any of it's competitors. For example, I just love to do the recon lap, feeling the anticipation. And after the race, there's nothing better than the outlap, cooling down. Competition is my fuel, so to speak.

    But as far as replayability goes: If it weren't for a couple of friends I regularly drive with, rF2 would collect some dust. pCars and AC are decaying on my HD, mostly because I don't have anyone to drive them with.

    Pickup racing? Meh.
    Offline racing? Double Meh.
    Hotlapping? Well... yeah, but as preparation for our races only. Doesn't have to do with attention spans - I can do lap after lap for a very long time as long as I have a goal (i.e. preparation, tuning the setup etc.). Hotlapping for its own sake? It's just plain pointless IMO.
     
  15. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Who wants to spend hours of waiting between track sessions? Spending late nights replacing a sheared half-shaft before 9am qualifying because the part broke during practice?

    Could the simulation of the full racing experience be better? Yes. Damage could carry over between sessions. There could be licensing and bonehead moves causing suspension. There could be accounting for costs and needing an income. Yet once again, the majority of simracers just skip these parts when they are available because they are boring and get in the way of competition or hotlapping!

    No, rF1 & rF2 are racing simulators. Simulations are NOT the real thing and you seem to be missing that point.
     
  16. hexagramme

    hexagramme Member

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    Oh, I see,, it's a "driving simulator". Wait, what? :confused:
    Are we even talking about the same sim?

    It doesn't even try to simulate any aspect of racing? Uhm, kay.

    What about the pratice sessions, qualifying, warm-up and race sessions, with Real Road that carries over from one session to the next?
    Starting grid decided by a qualifying session, formation lap, standing or flying start, racing against AI or human opponents to the flag.
    Safety cars,flags, penalties, overtaking, pit stops, tire management, spins and crashes.

    Sure sounds like racing simulation to me... ;)
     
  17. Emery

    Emery Registered

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    Replayability: depends on moods and other interests. If the weather is not pouring, it's daylight, and the salmon & steelhead are running upstream, then I'm more likely going to get some outdoor exercise these days... sitting at a computer indoors for hours on end is not the healthiest of activities. Then there are definite positive distractions in the form of my lovely wife :p

    Pickup races online are simple fun provided the practice/qualifying sessions aren't longer than the race. I've got the ability to swallow my pride when it's obvious I'm not the fastest, so will try other strategies to get a win... too many people, I think, are so concerned about being first that they never learn survival is more important.

    Offline, I'm more often interested in learning a track/car. Unless there's nothing happening online, in which case I'll be interested in an AI race.

    Competition... hmm. There are definitely days when I'm not interested in competition. Like last night, when I hopped into the Panoz roadster and just cruised autumn Nordschliefe (partly because of the fuss about AC dream pack and I wanted compare/contrast).

    So overall, rF2 is there when I want it and it waits when I'm elsewhere. I'm finding it very hard to pick up rF1 and the sisters due to the freshness rF2 brings with realroad, deformable tires, etc. I still sorely miss deformable panels and rain on the windshield/goggles in rF2.
     
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  18. pay2021

    pay2021 Registered

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    RF2 have an infinity replay because its a simulator, you recreate a specific situation instead of follow a carrer/history line, personally i cant master one track in one specific class so for me the replay is almost endless.

    Like everything you do/play constantly in some point you get bored so quit for a time, it happen me with everything in life but also in some point you get the itch and comeback again.
     
  19. Jamie Shorting

    Jamie Shorting Registered

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    Yep, you never finish the game, there isn't some big green monster to defeat at the end of a non existent campaign. Anyway, I usually stay out of OPs threads, I should start listening to my own advice. :p
     
  20. Panigale

    Panigale Banned

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    Well said.

    rF2 is brilliant because you can copy almost any event you like to some degree. I enjoy watching F1, and I enjoy the FR3.5 in rF2 so e.g. Sepang, I'm practicing, qualifying, and racing similar to the real life event, including weather. Same for other tracks. (The warm up lap with standing start (AI) could use some improvement but the fact that we have that as an option is great.)
    If you are a motorsports fan you always have something to plan for. The AI is excellent to race against.

    For laid back fun when time is a challenge I setup a practice session in rF2 with different car types for a couple hours where I go out in roughly 20 minutes stints like a typical track day. I can pit for 30 minutes, get real life things done, then go back to another session.
     

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