[REL] Honda Civic NGTC BTCC Car v1.07 Released

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 88mphTim, Dec 31, 2013.

  1. Axly

    Axly Registered

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    As another T500RS-user, could it be the the car itself that is the problem? It is after all a quite powerful FWD car... I get the feeling that Honda has done everything to get rid of the typical fwd behaviour (going straight ahead if you floor it etc.) and make a race car out of this one, and I absolutely adore the feel of ISI's interpretation!
    We are considering using the Honda in our next (and third using rf2) race season instead of the megane, because the great feeling, ffb/physics and that it invites to BTCC-wrestling :)
     
  2. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    The car seams to be ok and i also can't notice hypersensivity in relation to rolling over, at least on LochD.
     
  3. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    This is exactly the type of behaviour that the Civic sometimes exhibits. It would never happen in a road car (the road car would just understeer off the side of the road and slam the front into the cliff face). That's why professional drivers drive specially configured rally and BTCC cars and why road cars, even ones with the same power and torque are slower on a track than race cars. But with the higher performance (diff configuration, especially) and grip comes knife-edge danger. I'm not saying the Civic is perfect, but so far it feels incredibly authentic to me. Part of that is the annoying FWD characteristics that force very careful management of the steering versus acceleration balance, since you have to choose more carefully which you want more of than in a typical RWD car. The iRacing Jetta is exactly the same, except it's less hopped-up compared to the road car version.
     
  4. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Good Morning,

    i've seen roll overs from opponents on LochD when they hitting some curbs while it also happened once with me but I would not expect anything else in the driving situation i had caused. I do not want to commit myself but it seems normal to me.

    I also was able to find a better balance for the force feedback which is not yet optimal from my pov but already a lot better, although I 'm still looking for the optimum.


    Maybe I can make my problem a little clearer. It is mainly about the traction where the friction resistances are very detailed mediated but the differences are too strong represents as the friction tears partly off completely , which should not be the case. There should always be a residual resistance retained by friction, whatever the situation, as long as a tire has contact.


    The currently abrupt and bumpy transitions are comparable as for example with solid rubber tires behaviour which are not compliant and flexible enough to generate maximum static friction surface with low weight for example by oversized stiffness/payload.


    It's like only parts of the surface/patch have the contact but not the entire area, provided that contact pressure is applied.

    Perhaps it is better to understand, at least I hope. Thnx !
     
  5. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Maybe I can help you do that.. bit confusing here:

    detailed mediated? Those two words don't go together, and mediated doesn't seem right.

    I guess you mean "but the differences are too strong[stark], which manifests as ..." but then the last part is hard to get.

    'partly off completely' - seems a bit like saying "a little totally" which also doesn't make sense. I'm not sure if you're just using too many words to describe it or you're trying to describe a process/transition but missing some words to pad it out.

    I've noticed a few times with your posts that you sort of introduce what you're going to talk about, then talk about it, and then finish it off. Unfortunately just when you're getting to the important bit (the talking about it) you join too many sentences together or have too many words in there, or something. It might even be you're trying so hard to get your meaning across (perhaps worried about language) that you actually make it harder to understand ;)

    Sorry, I realise I'm not really adding to the discussion here. Just trying to help you get your meaning across, if it's not quite there already.
     
  6. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Thank you Lazza. I understand. Let's try to explain it this way and simplified: the transitions are to rough, mainly under traction. For example I was able to improve it with the filter for some, whereby the main forces become clearer and more dynamic but it is even on 32 not quite enough. The information of the surface is still too detailed, dominant and commands the FFB to much. A residual friction should be present even with slip.

    How it is, is similar to a slip stick effect but with each slip and mainly under traction. The rubber/tire feels to hard.

    Driving the car is still cool but it would even be greater with a more balanced FFB of the T500RS when i would feel more comfortable with. I'll tonight continue to test.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2014
  7. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    Is this realisstic?

    I happened to me 3 times in a raw in the same place! the curb in this corner is almost plan, so why did it roll over?
     
  8. ErnieDaOage

    ErnieDaOage Registered

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    i can only guess but i think its a combination of your suspension settings and that u didn't do any correction to prevent your barrel roll. but can't say exactly as the resolution is a bit wide on my screen and i don't clearly see your inputs on the top left.
     
  9. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    In the meantime i also experienced similar roll overs, but mainly from opponents and what I also noticed is some extreme braking deceleration by friction on curbs.

    edit: solved by ffb settings
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2014
  10. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    It doesn't happen to me often, but when it happens I can't do anything to prevent it!
     
  11. MJP

    MJP Registered

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    Fixed that for you (based on video evidence).
     
  12. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    lolll I didn't post any video from the cockpit view and you already say this?! I did do some thing to prevent it and the question wasn't how can prevent the roll over, but is it realistic that a racing car like the Civic rolls over by going over a flat curb?!
     
  13. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    I wasn't braking in that point!
     
  14. ErnieDaOage

    ErnieDaOage Registered

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    You postet a video with the overlay of your inputs and gforces on the top left. If u haven't mentioned it months before there are exactly your driving inputs and u didn't do any correction on the steering axis which kept u rolling over. and iam sure if u drive a real car without any corrections the same things will happen.
     
  15. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    I don't know whether it is normal and I have no possibility to compare it or know comparative data, but purely by emotion I tend to say it seems to me somewhat sensitive.
     
  16. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    lolll again?! I posted that video to ask if it is normal that the car rolls over easily like that over a flat curb?! I didn't ask a driving lesson from you:rolleyes:
     
  17. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    It almost looks as if it is lifted up because air got underneath the car and this generates lift, just like when a F1 car loses its front wing for example. Definitely doesn't seem
    right to me. What I expected to see is you took one of the sausage kerbs with two wheels, but not a regular fia regulation kerb at not a very
    high speed.

    Is it just me or does this look very, very similar?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2ZpyA3CXU


    If something ends up being wrong, I hope the cause can be identified and fixed. If it's correct behavior, it sure as heck looks weird ^^

    edit:
    Going to do some lapping :p

    edit2:
    Done 13 laps or so, with the default setup. Didn't experience any out of the ordinary behavior whatsoever, in fact, I though it drove great, best default setup of all ISI cars to date I think!
    However, the kerb you had your flipping incident is in fact the most high kerb of the entire track, seemingly almost as high as the modern day Imola kerbs, and that is pretty darn high. It could very well be a setup thing with too stiff springs, but I'm not sure it looks that way visually speaking. I attacked that kerb a good amount of times head one and barely lifted a wheel and if I did, I couldn't tell...

    Still weird why it does that in the video though but I was not able to reproduce it, at all.

    edit3:
    Rally car rolling over, that looked downright silly as well :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2014
  18. Bkim

    Bkim Registered

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    Honda = 5 fps. It is terrible.
     
  19. ErnieDaOage

    ErnieDaOage Registered

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    Yes and its easy to explain in that vid. You attack that curb and your car goes up a bit, no problem there BUT u don't do any steering correction and because you are going to roll over u get more contact patch from the wheel because you are driving with camber between -1.0 and -4. The next mistake in my opionion which also led to the roll over is on the point where u got more contact patch to the surface and u hit the gas pedal on a FWD car. That results in my opionion to more force gets throw from the side to your car and u roll over. If you questioning physics because of wrong driving techniques is the same thing like saying iam driving on ice because iam going too fast in everycorner and can't stay on the road.
     
  20. Guimengo

    Guimengo Guest

    As stated and shown repeatedly the car behavior with the wheel coming up is perfectly fine, the issue that I think exists is with the weightlessness of the car. In real life gravity is pulling it down but in the game it's as if that force doesn't have any impact on the car, the inertia feels off and the Honda shoots off into repeatedly flips that accelerate the car outwards.
     

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