Honda Civic and Renault Clio rollover

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Javi288, Dec 5, 2016.

  1. Javi288

    Javi288 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2016
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    49
    Both cars continue to rollover very easily. I hope Studio397 fixes this bug.
     
  2. stonec

    stonec Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,321
    Likes Received:
    1,444
    I don't think it's a bug because both of those cars have received multiple updates. The first release of Civic rolled over much more easily than it does in the current version.
     
  3. Javi288

    Javi288 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2016
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    49
    Yesterday I was running with the Civic in Sepang, I was surprised that after so long the car still had that problem. Take the test (Civic + Sepang or Clio + Lime Rock Park).

    Regards.
     
  4. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,733
    Likes Received:
    2,109
    AI or yourself? If it's AI then the AIW will need tweaking perhaps.
     
  5. Javi288

    Javi288 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2016
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    49
    My car.
     
  6. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    287
    Discussed from the beginning and first appearance of Civic BTCC-car!
    This is a realistic behaviour. Deal with it!
     
    Euskotracks likes this.
  7. Comante

    Comante Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,527
    Likes Received:
    1,035
    You can't eat curbs so aggressively in a car so rigid.
     
  8. MarcG

    MarcG Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,733
    Likes Received:
    2,109
    Yeah this Rollover topic has been done to death before and it always ends up going round & round in circles where people just don't agree with each other.
    There's quite a few different angles to look at it from, none of these directed at anyone in particular just thoughts on the process:
    a) Is it a fault of the Cars Physics?
    b) We tend to take many more risks when gaming than we would when driving a real car around a race track, so ask yourself; Would you attack that curb in Real Life the same way you do in a Sim?
    c) Are you simply taking the corner completely wrong in the first place so therefore need to adjust your Entry & Apex points?
    d) Do you have the right setup to be bouncing over curbs?
    e) Are you a good enough driver in the first place? Maybe you need the practice.
    f) Is it the Tracks Fault at having the Curbs wrong (height/collision/direction etc) in the first place?

    I've been enjoying the Civic at Adelaide this year and those curbs are monsters, never once did I roll it. But should that happen at another track then the way I personally deal with it is this: If I keep Rolling the car at a specific point on a track then I alter my driving line and/or setup until I can take that corner safely.
     
    GDUBMX and Sebastien Sestacq like this.
  9. hitm4k3r

    hitm4k3r Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2016
    Messages:
    1,133
    Likes Received:
    2,510
    The problem is pretty easy to explain. The cars have a tendency to roll with the wrong inputs in real life aswell and there are some pretty impressive pics with those cars on two wheels. The difference is that the real driver notices the car lifting right through his pants and has the possibility aswell as the skill to react immediately when we just react based on our visuals and the FFB, so we will allways react too late and maybe wrong. I think this picture speaks for itself:

    http://www.pixoto.com/images-photog.../motorsports/btcc-action-5860136795504640.jpg

    Btw, I've been on two wheels in a Seat Marbella at something like 15 km/h, so you can be sure that it is possible in a Honda Civic BTCC :D
     
    GDUBMX, peterchen and MarcG like this.
  10. Javi288

    Javi288 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2016
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    49
    Thank you very much for your answers, I appreciate your opinions.

    I will continue to do tests with the Civic on different tracks, because i feel there is something wrong with this car.

    I've been playing racing simulators for many years, I've even rollover a car on a track in real life. I think I know something about this ...

    Regards.


    P.S. Sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language and I can't express myself the way I would like it.
     
    GDUBMX and MarcG like this.
  11. MikeeCZ

    MikeeCZ Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    180
    Ye, rF2s physics are just poop





    And here clios



    Stay off high kerbs.. some of them are actually designed to kick you up so you are forced to avoid them
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
    Marc Collins, peterchen and GDUBMX like this.
  12. Euskotracks

    Euskotracks Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,093
    Likes Received:
    191
    The rollover might be excessive simply because of too high grip values. If the car CG is correctly located the physics governing this behaviour are quite simple. A too stiff suspension setting could also transfer too much kinetic energy to rolling momentum. The availability of some real telemetry from these cars could help comparing to the rF2 ones.

    Apparently for the Civic this was done with some BTCC teams and if I don't rememeber wrong it was one of the first cats implementing flex chassis. I would try lowering that internal torsional stiffness and associated damping if you want to try.

    It should be noted that this is typically a no return situation unless driver corrects with the wheel. The rollover momentum increases as the CG goes up and the capability of the car to overcome it, is maximum when the inner wheel lifts from the ground.
     
  13. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    3,032
    Likes Received:
    394
    From what i can see, i would guess the CG (HDV) is a bit to high, on both cars.
     
  14. Mangoletsi

    Mangoletsi Registered

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2012
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    198
    This is a race car, with adjustable suspension. If the handling isn't to your liking, then lower the ride height, and reduce the camber on the rear wheels !!!
     
  15. Rocket123

    Rocket123 Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2015
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    The real cars are tippy basturds ... The race cars look like a modified Honda Fit to me and my friends Fit is super unstable at 100mph ...of course , that is the street car version .

    ;)
     
  16. Javi288

    Javi288 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2016
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    49
    I've been testing the new NOLA track (Layout Indy). Several races against the AI (USF2000, Nissan 370 GT4 and Renault Clio).

    In turn 1 the Nissan and the Renault did rollover many times, I am referring to the AI. In the case of the Clio, several cars at the same time did rollover.

    I read the presentation of NOLA that Studio397 has done:

    "That's especially true for Indy's unforgiving temporary curbs in turn 1 and turn 6. They demand respect. Go in too deep on entry and catch a tire, best-case scenario you lose some precious tenths, worst-case you flip up on two wheels Or lose control and smash into your opponent! "

    But it does not seem normal to me the ease of the AI to dump suddenly, it's as if the cars were catapulted, unnaturally.

    I do not know if there is a bug on the track, in cars or in AI, but something is not working properly here.

    The test is very simple: A race against AI (about 15 cars). Start the race and pass the turn 1, restart the race and pass that turn again. Of 10 times, in 8 of them some car of the AI will rollover.


    Regards.
     
    Juergen-BY likes this.
  17. Juergen-BY

    Juergen-BY Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    3,032
    Likes Received:
    394
    I would report this issue in the Nola thread, too...
     
  18. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    287
    So you´re saying that this only happens if you restart the race?
     
  19. Javi288

    Javi288 Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2016
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    49
    It's not necessary. I was restarting the race to reproduce same situation on turn 1. It was a fast mode to do it.

    I'll do more tests with other cars before posting on the NOLA thread (to provide as much information as possible).
     
    Juergen-BY likes this.
  20. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    2,099
    Likes Received:
    287
    What AI aggression level? Is it better with lower agression?
     

Share This Page