High-End Wheel Owners (CSW V2 and Above) Please Chime In - Experiences, Info, Reviews

Sweet! :)

I was very eager to try this at the time but couldn't wait any longer and went with the t500.

I deleted my comment about the 4Nm if back calculating based on fanatec's statement about 75% more power than the CSW B V1 and 7Nm torque for the V2 because i realised afterwards it said +75% more power and not more torque. My mistake. A percentage in power increase only translates to the same percentage increase in torque if the gearing/transmission ratios between motor and steering wheel are identical. And if i recall correctly, the v2 gearing/transmission ratio is different.

I do remember the torque/power fade problem of the CSR-E well. Glad it's no longer plaguing you. :)
 
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DrR1pper said:
Off the top of my head and approximate values, i think are:

G25/27 - 4Nm
T500 - 5Nm
CSWv2 - 6Nm
AFPro - 13Nm
Bodnar - 16Nm
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I'm pretty sure the G25 and G27 do much less than 4 Nm, the T500RS does a bit more than 5.0 Nm, and the CSW v2 does quit a bit more than 6.0 Nm. The following is what I've gathered over time.




G27 - 2.5 Nm - 3.28 Nm ------ 2.5 Nm here, 3.0 Nm here, 3.28 here (quoted part which may originally be from here)

G25 - Not sure but I've heard multiple times it's a bit more powerful than the G27.

CSR / GT2 / GT3RS v2 - Not sure, but almost certainly more than the G25 and G27 (I have lots of experience with, both, the G25 and CSR). The same person who said 3.28 Nm for his G27 said 4.59 Nm for his GT3RS v2 here (quoted part which may originally be from here)

T300RS / TX - Less than the T500RS but still relatively powerful. 4.25 Nm - 5.25 Nm?

CSW v1- 5.0 Nm - 5.25 Nm ------- "My stock V1 was good for about 5 Nm of torque when cold at stall..." here, 5.25 Nm here

T500RS - 5.0 Nm - 6.0 Nm ------ I most often hear 5.5 Nm, I've seen 5.0 Nm, and 6.0 Nm here --- Techade's G27 measurment differed from David Tucker's so maybe 5.5 Nm is a safe bet considering all the numbers floating around?

CSW v2 - 7.0 Nm - 7.3 Nm ------- Fanatec claims over 7 Nm here, 7 Nm here, 7.3 Nm tested here

AF Pro - 13 Nm ------ But possibly 16 Nm in some kind of other non-linear mode or something??? Please correct me if I'm wrong and I'll delete the "16 Nm" part

Bodnar - 16 Nm+ ------ Bodnar comes with different motor options (I don't know why nobody ever mentions this, it's even stated on their website)

OSW- 20 Nm - 30 Nm ------ Based on the most commonly used motors (MiGe 130ST-M10010 AKA "Small MiGe" = 20 Nm --- MiGe 130ST-M15015 AKA "Big MiGe" = 30 Nm --- Lenze (not sure model #) = 30 Nm)




The thing with the CSW V1 at max power (wether it's 5.0 or 5.25 Nm) is that it would quite commonly loose power due to head-fade unlike the CSW V2 as the following makes clear:
My original V1 was awful in this respect in my opinion. I really felt the power reduction a lot when the wheel had gotten warm/hot - and at the worst times I measured nearly a 40% loss of power in max stall torque when the wheel was at its hottest.
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After the very long sessions and extended running, I'm happy to report that in the car and track combos I tried so far the V2 wheel almost never lost more than a very small amount of power on the order of a single digit percentage - as you'd expect from a warm electric motor. This is considerably better performance than the V1 wheel, and if I'm honest, I couldn't really notice the reduction...
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source
 
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Yes, i got the numbers pretty wrong there. Thanks for sharing a more complete list of data sources and stall torque measurements of ffb wheels.
 
My son (who really gets the Marussia F1 car around a track) and I did some serious testing at Silverstone on the max STC with our AF wheel. Silverstone is a fantastic track for winged cars, and it has a high speed turn that produces nearly 40 Nm of average steering shaft torque shown in Motec. In a previous post I stated that we had gradually cranked up the STC to 20 Nm. After extensive high speed curb hammering we found some hardware clipping with the STC set at 20 Nm as compared to when set at the wheels's rated 13 Nm. When we backed the STC down to 18 Nm, the curbs felt the same (although with lower forces) as when set to 13. Bottom line: I believe the AF wheel can be set to 18 Nm for STC without experiencing hardware clipping. The FFB was set to 0.85, which produced flashes of red on the software clipping meter when hammering curbs

I am not saying this makes the AF wheel comparable in torque output to the OSW wheels; it is likely that the STC for those wheels can be set much higher than the rated torque also. I will say this: with our current settings for the AF the grip required makes my hands hurt after a session in the Marussia F1. I can't imagine what it's like to drive the real car for hours with more than twice the wheel forces the AF makes!
 
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I don't think that the steering shaft torgue that motec show is the torgue that drivers in real life experience, because F1 cars has power steering which are not simulated in rF2.

I have had my small mige osw for few days now, and i don't know why someone would want to have more torgue than 20 Nm. In my opinion driving starts to feel unpleasant all ready when the plugin shows that i have half of the force in cornering. torgue is not same as pleasure in my opinion. After some point atleast.
 
Korva7 said:
I don't think that the steering shaft torgue that motec show is the torgue that drivers in real life experience, because F1 cars has power steering which are not simulated in rF2.
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One year ago my son drove the full motion simulator at the Ferrari museum in Marenello. They said it was the same as those in the drivers' homes which they use to practice new steering wheel configurations. They also said the the steering forces where halved from the real car for us tourist dweebs (they could turn it to full forces if desired), and the brake pedal forces were only 1/3 of the real car (the sim pedal was still very stiff). My son stuck with the recommended half steering force, and he reported the steering was incredibly heavy. He believes the forces now generated by my AF are about 1/3 to 1/2 of those he felt on the Ferrari sim. That would make the real car between 4 and 6 times heavier than my AF. When considering the 5g turns, the big soft tires, the small steering wheel, the front suspension geometry, and the need for light low power drawing auxiliary systems on an F1 car, it is reasonable to believe that those drivers are still managing a seriously heavy wheel.
 
Z06Trackman said:
When considering the 5g turns, the big soft tires, the small steering wheel, the front suspension geometry, and the need for light low power drawing auxiliary systems on an F1 car, it is reasonable to believe that those drivers are still managing a seriously heavy wheel.
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Ok. that's probaby true.
 
Paul Loatman said:
I reinforced my Obutto with some large 4" steel half-squares and 1/2" threaded rods connecting the front half with the back half, this made my rig much more rigid and the wheel doesn't cause any noticeable amount of flex in the steering mount. This makes a huge difference in the quality of the feedback, any largely noticeable amount of flexing will take away some detail from the feedback as it'll dampen it out, so if you do get a powerful DD wheel, you'll definitely want a very strong rig to mount it to.

I have a few videos i'm editing of me driving with the accuforce in various cars and you'll be able to see how it is in rF2 when i post them.
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Paul - do you have any photos of how you've reinforced your Obutto for a DD wheel? Thanks in advance!
 
Z06Trackman said:
My son (who really gets the Marussia F1 car around a track) and I did some serious testing at Silverstone on the max STC with our AF wheel. Silverstone is a fantastic track for winged cars, and it has a high speed turn that produces nearly 40 Nm of average steering shaft torque shown in Motec. ...
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Interesting.
MOTEC torque sensor is before or after the power steering system?


EDIT: Nevermind...I was thinking you were talking about the "real" F1 thing, but you don't, weren't you?
 
Z06Trackman said:
One year ago my son drove the full motion simulator at the Ferrari museum in Marenello. They said it was the same as those in the drivers' homes which they use to practice new steering wheel configurations. They also said the the steering forces where halved from the real car for us tourist dweebs (they could turn it to full forces if desired), and the brake pedal forces were only 1/3 of the real car (the sim pedal was still very stiff). My son stuck with the recommended half steering force, and he reported the steering was incredibly heavy. He believes the forces now generated by my AF are about 1/3 to 1/2 of those he felt on the Ferrari sim. That would make the real car between 4 and 6 times heavier than my AF. When considering the 5g turns, the big soft tires, the small steering wheel, the front suspension geometry, and the need for light low power drawing auxiliary systems on an F1 car, it is reasonable to believe that those drivers are still managing a seriously heavy wheel.
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I've used the Evotek last February in Verona.
AFAIK it is the same they have in Maranello.
It's not on par with my OSW, the max torque is 15 Nm as stated in Evotek website.

Anyway you give me an idea on what to do in the next weekend...I'm just 50km away ;)
 
Paul Loatman said:
Here are some pics: https://goo.gl/photos/Ljn6d4vExtYaWgNz8

I have 1/4" thick quarter square steel bars under the AF itself, which is held onto the original mount with 3 bolts on each side, i also machined some angled rising blocks under the AF mount to give myself a bit more of an angle on the wheel. I can't remember what size u-bolts i used for the main upright supports i added under the wheel stand, you'll just have to measure and figure it out, but you can get these at most hardware stores, i had to use 2 different sizes. The pieces under the pedals were drilled and tapped for threads so that i could easily hold them in place from the top, but on the bottom side i cut and filed down the wide sides and left two "prongs" on each end, those fit into a couple of holes each that i drilled and filed square into the base of the Obutto itself, it's mostly held together with just tension, the screws just keep it from sliding.

Let me know if the pictures don't work, some people seem to have trouble viewing stuff from my google photo albums.
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Thank Paul! I can see the pics. Looks like some heavy duty work there. Why did you reinforce the pedal area as well? Was that just to keep the pedal plate from tilting when you brake?
 
Z06Trackman said:
One year ago my son drove the full motion simulator at the Ferrari museum in Marenello. They said it was the same as those in the drivers' homes which they use to practice new steering wheel configurations. They also said the the steering forces where halved from the real car for us tourist dweebs (they could turn it to full forces if desired), and the brake pedal forces were only 1/3 of the real car (the sim pedal was still very stiff). My son stuck with the recommended half steering force, and he reported the steering was incredibly heavy. He believes the forces now generated by my AF are about 1/3 to 1/2 of those he felt on the Ferrari sim. That would make the real car between 4 and 6 times heavier than my AF. When considering the 5g turns, the big soft tires, the small steering wheel, the front suspension geometry, and the need for light low power drawing auxiliary systems on an F1 car, it is reasonable to believe that those drivers are still managing a seriously heavy wheel.
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After reading your post I got to thinking and watching a few in car replays of real F1.
With respect I seriously doubt that these guys are dealing with massive steering wheel torque values. They deal with massive G forces and their necks bear witness to that. I read that David Couthards collar size went down about 2 inches in the year he retired. The things that make me disbelieve what your son was told are
1) the incredibly fast hand movements and correction that are possible (Daniel Ricciardos pass in S3 at Cota one great example.) If there were arm deadening levels of torque it just couldnt be done.
2) The physiques of the drivers feature massively strong necks as mentioned but arm development is just average. Suzie Wollf is a great example, her neck got really big but her arms just normal.
A GP of 90 minutes would be incredible if this were the case. They get out of the car exhausted but dont seem to have any issues with their arms.
We look at tiny guys like Massa, Stevens they simply dont have superhuman arm strength. Vettel too.
So the motivation or ignorance of the people running the place at Maranello is possibly to blame. Maybe they want to big up the F1 drivers? Dont know.
 
Paul Loatman said:
I also have my doubts about these huge torque figures the F1 drivers are getting in modern days, it's probably not as light as the average road car, but probably no more than 20Nm, if even that. If you just look at the way they hold the wheel, it doesn't look like they're handling a very heavy wheel. Not to even mention the fact that their wheels don't move around a huge amount over curbs or bumps, at least not as much as an open wheel car with no power steering would. If you watch any of the world series by Renault or Indycar races, you'll easily see the difference in the steering feedback over bumps and curbs, and these cars would probably have less front downforce than the top teams in F1.

Maybe the figures that were mentioned were of the car without power steering, or the very maximum they would feel for short periods over a large bump at top speed?



Yes, the pedals were reinforced so that i could reliably apply more pressure to the brakes. Before i did this, the entire pedal mount would flex back under braking and that movement was getting in the way of feeling the actual brake pedal.
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GP2 and Indycar are around 20 to 30nm and you can see that the steering is a lot heavier. I think with a wheel output of 20nm you should be fine in a sim. Of course in a crash you get higher forces, but we dont want to break our wrists, do we?

Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5 mit Tapatalk
 
I was just about to say what you guys just did. F1 isn't so strong (relatively speaking of course), FR3.5 and IndyCars are stronger (and I guess GP2 as-well). Older F1 cars look really strong though about mid-90s and prior.

Group C, IMSA, etc. cars look pretty strong too.
 
You guys could all be correct about the real life forces in an F1 car. It was ten months between driving the Ferrari sim in Maranello and my AF wheel. Still, the AF does 13Nm and the sim calls for 40Nm so that is 3x (according to the Motec data). For sure the sim operator at Ferrari said my son was using the 1/2 wheel force setting and my son said it was very heavy. I should've asked Kimi and Sebastian at COTA when I got their autographs a few weeks ago! I was too star struck to come up with anything more meaningful than, "Good luck tomorrow!". The were very nice and patient with fans; all smiles. I saw Kimi laugh at something one fan said.
 
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