Having second thoughts already (*update: not anymore)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by eRacer_, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. Ermz

    Ermz Registered

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    The BMW M2 CS is what I recommend my newer friends learn how to drive in rF 2. The Radical SR3 is great as well, on account of its lack of assists. From there I would recommend Tatuus as an introduction to open wheeler handling. Between these you have your major archetypes of vehicle types handled. GT car, track day machine and open wheeler. Afterwards you can graduate to the GT3s, then GTEs, then LMPs and finally the F1 cars.

    Actually got a very long-requested rFactor 2 introduction video going live on Sunday which, looking back on this thread, seems like it may have come in handy a few weeks ago.
     
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  2. bobbie424242

    bobbie424242 Registered

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    The Ferrari 488 GTE is very beginner friendly I think, probably more than the BMW M2 (that is one of my fav car, especially the slower 350hp version).
    The Radical SR3 XX 2020 is also excellent for learning purpose and you can drive it insanely fast as you progress.
    Caveat: both are DLCs.
     
  3. Ermz

    Ermz Registered

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  4. bwana

    bwana Registered

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    Frustrating because it exposes incorrect habits, Ideal trainer
     
  5. eRacer_

    eRacer_ Registered

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    Sorry to say this, but... ehemmm... I don't like open wheel... I know, I know. I should be ashamed of myself. However, while I'm writing this it occurs to me that I don't like open wheel because no sim has portrayed them in an interesting way. Perhaps I should give it a go here in RF2.

    LOL Yes. The FFB feels very real. You can feel the weight of the car, the body roll, when you are loosing grip, and particularly when you are about to lose control. I have done that in real life, to feel it in the sim was a surprise.
    I wonder how this would feel in a CSL Elite.
    I would say, generally speaking, a mid engine car is easier to drive. I wonder if the best for new drivers would be a racing version of the MR2 (like these ones). I'm considering to ask permission to transfer this AC mod to RF2 (it's a real car). It would be a blast. But I don't know how hard it can be to mod here.
    Thank you, the video is awesome. I know how much work there is in video/audio production. This video is TOP!

    The Radical S3 is a car that invites you to go to the limit. It has the performance of a GT4/GT3 but is so nimble and so light. Definitely a must. I'm having a blast with it.
    I was racing the Flat6 series, but the lack of autoblip refrains me. I know, every driver should know how to do heel-toe (or at least understand why heel-toe is a thing), but is just too many new things. I consider the Flat6 series Medium Level, not beginner at all.

    I'm still looking for a good introductory car to the GT world (one FR and one MR). I think PC2 nailed it in this precise area. Ginetta G40.... I miss you.:(
     
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  6. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    One of the cars that made me comfortable with most cars is the Skip Barber. Holy crap that was hard in the beginning, but when you nail that car on the limit you can drive just about anything. :)
     
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  7. eRacer_

    eRacer_ Registered

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    Please, can you tell me more about the Skip Barber? All cars have a 'point'. What is the point of this car?
     
  8. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    It's a driving school car. The point of it is to highlight incorrect driving behaviour. It's extremely nervous off-throttle, so it teaches you to get your braking done early and gently apply power through the turn, not easing off or diving in like a lunatic. So a bit like verbal coaching, but you're much more likely to end up off the track instead of just saying "What? I don't know what you mean... what I'm doing is fine, isn't it?"
     
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  9. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    Like already mentioned, it's one of the most driving fundamentals exposing vehicles to learn race cars (in general). The interesting thing is, that the Skip Barber doesn't just teach you open wheelers, it teaches also dynamics of race cars in general, so it is a good trainer for basically every kind of way, you are intending to choose. It communicates its needs pretty clearly.

    BTW. Three Picks from the Reiza Pack DLC, that also teach driving styles and may be an entrance into more advanced stuff, but it's payware:

    The Puma P052 is an H-Shifted low HP turbo 4 banger which still teaches throttle control and using lower revs and turboes out of corners. It's a small race car, comparable to a MX-5 Cup, but featuring a mid-engine configuration, which can result in extremely agile turn-in. It has slicks in rF2 and a more "sharp" limit, than the semi-slick version in AMS.

    The other trainer, that is a bit similar to the Skippy, but more difficult, is the Formula-Vee (basically an old stripped off VW Beetle), which unfortunately is way harder to drive in rF2, than in Automobilista and Automobilista 2, without any setups (it's probably the tyre), so not that recommended for the beginning, to be honest, but if you can drive this, you can drive everything. It's extremely nervous on the brakes and prone to spin heavily off throttle, if driven unbalanced. It features a 4-speed H-Shifter, but you basically use mostly 3rd and 4th gear.

    The MCR 2000 is a good entrance into driving Prototypes and comparable to a slightly slower and open-diff equipped Radical SR3, it's a semi-oldschool stick sequential, you have to blip while downshifting and pay some attention to your shifting, even use it to your advantage, even with the somewhat flawed transmission model in rF2.
    You have a bit of aero and a LOT of cornering ability, the limit is very hard to find, what also comes from the aero and slick tyres. It seems slow at first, but i always find this car to be addictive in some way in rF2, when pushing it hard.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
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  10. eRacer_

    eRacer_ Registered

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    I'm all for this. The strange thing is... I can't find it. I once entered in developer mode and it was the only car available (if my memory doesn't fail) but in the normal menu I can't find it.
     
  11. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Should just be listed as Skipbarber 2013.

    Check if you're subscribed to it, search 'skip' in the rF2 workshop, should find it here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=537638633

    (Note that's an ISI car, some of which do vary a little in quality (moreso than S397) and some people - one in particular - tends to talk down ISI stuff. But most of them are fine, and so is this one)
     
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  12. Alex72

    Alex72 Registered

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    Yeah sometimes (very rarely for me personally) i had to unsubscribe to a car in the workshop (still stock content and not a mod) and then resubscribe to it. Then start rF2 (the launcher is enough" and see it being installed again. Then go back into the sim and see if its there. In case any content is missing you can test this. Lazza already told you but i just thought of adding some extra info for clarification. ;)
     
  13. davidporeilly

    davidporeilly Registered

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    So true, lots of us need/needed to understand fore-aft balance control. I would hypothesise that some "more basic handling models" found in lesser sims calculate speed and rate of steering only. In some of them you feel you are driving a dot around the track and from time to time oversteer is emulated. In RF2 you can learn to "put it on the nose" or rear using the pedals.
    Good call.
     
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  14. eRacer_

    eRacer_ Registered

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    The skip barber can barely turn in any corner, even at 40—60 mph the car will lose the rear end in turns 2/3 of Nurburgring, cold or warm tyres, doesn’t matter.
    It must be really fun for online races, because the harder the better (for whoever knows how to drive it). But against the AI is pointless, because they won’t be affected by physics like the human driver.
    Are you sure this is a good car to learn stuff?

    edited: unless what you mean is that the way we normally drive a car in a sim is not the right way and the right way is applying what one can learn from the skip barber.
     
  15. DrivingFast

    DrivingFast Registered

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    Nobody thinks that a manual gearbox car with heel and toe is not the best thing for a beginner ?

    This car reminds me of memories, I had modified the .Hdv to obtain 200% of the torque and power and I believe a semi-automatic gearbox : in regional version it was very fun, at least in my memories.
     
  16. Lazza

    Lazza Registered

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    Exactly. They didn't throw beginners in this car on a track and say "hey, let's see who makes it around a lap!". They did a whole schooling thing, started small, had onboard cameras and analysis after sessions. Like I said, it's a school car - not a car for amateurs to fang round a track for fun.

    Google "skip barber going faster" and you'll find the video for it. It's an hour and a half long, and people usually recommend watching it in its entirety 2-3 times, probably trying some driving in between.

    To respond to your first line - it can be made to turn, the point is you need to drive it properly. (I say this with a fair degree of faith - I tried it very early on with other league members for a race (we thought it was an easy beginners car) and we all fell off. I've tried it a few times briefly more recently and just about got a handle on it, but I've done a fair amount of driving in the 60s open wheelers since then)

    AI shouldn't be too unrealistic - most of the physics you drive is also driven by the AI.

    @DrivingFast I wouldn't lock someone into driving only that car, and I certainly wouldn't encourage them to race people or AI in it, at least for a while. Nothing wrong with trying it, but it's a good test of patience and finding that willingness to learn instead of just doing the same as usual and hoping it works.
     
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  17. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Drive skipper Barber at limerock park, forget AI , It's learning time!
     
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  18. Filip

    Filip Registered

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    When I was racing AI at Limerock park in Skip Barber AI was good and I didn't notice discrepancies in performance compared to my car.
    At least that was the case cca 2 years ago.
     
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  19. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Registered

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    You don't have to heel&toe in rF2. Blipping and lifting is enough. Probably also possible IRL with the correct rev matching technique.
    Maintenance throttle. Even while braking. ;)
    But yes...the car feels broken, like the F-Vee, but it teaches habits, that will help later.
     
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  20. mechanic

    mechanic Registered

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    The Skip Barber is becoming the car I drive most of the times! And also the caterham classic, brilliant car.
    Limerock suits it really well. But I also enjoy driving the skip at Oulton Park (Fosters) and Ring Knutstorp. Smaller tracks with some elevation changes. Have fun, you will love it eventually!
     
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