Guide: Optimal FFB settings for rFactor 2 - The key to being in the "Zone" :D

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DrR1pper, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    I'm actually a bit confused by the graph. One of the variables must be a rotational position value of your ffb wheel because there is no software that can calculate the force output of the wheel directly. But even with rotational position values whilst steering the car does not reflect the true forces on the wheel because by adding your input to the wheel to steer the car, you will inevitably counter interfere with most the forces as you do so.
     
  2. newtonpg

    newtonpg Registered

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    According to TechAde, the plugin will dump all available rF2 telemetry data to a CSV file.
    Three (maybe four) variables are strictly related to the wheel
    FFB = percentual values of the generated forces (by the software) at wheel [-1.0 to 1.0]
    FilteredSteering = is a percentage of the wheel position [-1.0 to 1.0]
    UnfilteredSteering = idem
    SteeringArmForce (wich I was erroneous referring to as ForceAtSteeringRack) = Newtons

    So we are correlating forces output from the software (SAF) versus forces reproduced by the wheel (FFB variable). Of course we counteract these forces while driving and this is what give us the feedback.

    PS: FFB variable was introduced by TechAde at v2 of the plugin and to my knowledge it dont belong to the rF2 telemetry data. It is also part (I presume) of the famous TechAde's Overlay Plugin (yellow bar).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
  3. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Perhaps TechAde could shed some light on it some more.
     
  4. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Thanks, that means we only need to adjust the custom controller file(s) (from the Controller sub-directory) that we are using. I have two--one for H-pattern and paddle shifting and one for sequential stick shifting.

    All of the settings we are talking about here are in all of the controller ini files, so if you are correct, you have to adjust the one you are using and it will cascade into the main controller.ini file upon use. Makes sense. It's not just the button and axis assignments.
     
  5. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    I'm, Axe confirmed that the steering torque minimum in his CSW.ini file did not work when changed. It only worked when changed in the Controller.ini file.
     
  6. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    I have just reverted back to doing it in both places--it's the only way all settings changes would work. Strangely, some seemed to cascade and others did not, so...!?!?

    I am now using 0.05000 for STM. There is a small FFB deadzone, but the trade-off is OK because the low forces FFB is better. Hopefully ISI will figure-out how to fix this in the future and/or explain how some of the other controller.ini lines could be adjusted to compensate. It is minor enough that is doesn't prevent enjoyment of the sim, but is one of those annoyances that you wish would get fixed (like making Alt + M sticky or having controller files associated with cars so you could set the association once and then never have to load and re-load them again every time you need a different controller configuration (typically, a shifting style)).

    I am going to experiment with the Drift setting on the wheel itself, but doubt I would ever use it even if it helps. I am a stickler for pure linear steering and FFB, but just curious if it affects this FFB dead zone issue.
     
  7. TechAde

    TechAde Registered

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    FFB in the CSV data is the percentile force sent to the wheel driver, not a measure of actual force at the wheel. It's simply the value coming into the ForceFeedback API call, the same value displayed by the overlay plugin.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
     
  8. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    If i recall correctly, you made a thread comparing the steering arm forces to the FFB output and they were a perfect match (or nearly). If there not a perfect match, why is that? FFB smoothing?
     
  9. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    Yes and No
    You need to change the controller.ini in the player folder.
    If you change the ini in the controller folder you would then need to 'reload' that ini from within settings.
    Once reloaded it will become your new controller.ini
    ____________________________________________________

    G25 & G27 have a physical deadzone in the center,it's to stop one motor fighting the other apparently.
    You cannot fine tune this out,Logitech could release firmware to remove it but they won't.
     
  10. Axe

    Axe Registered

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    between 0,7 - 1. In that test it was 1. I would like to make a FFB response curve graph, with STM 0 and STM 0,00315. Can you navigate me how to?
     
  11. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    I don't know how to do this ingame but i know of a software outside you can use to get the data that i used to make the csr-elite graph.

    Here are the instructions:

     
  12. TechAde

    TechAde Registered

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    There are a few things that could affect it that I can see in Controller.ini:

    Skip updates="0" // Apparently some drivers can't handle a quick FFB update rate, so use this hack to skip the given number of updates (0=full update rate, 1=half, 2=one-third, 3=one-quarter, etc.)
    Off-road multiplier="0.30000" // Temporary test variable to reduce force feedback strength off-road (0.0 = zero FFB, 1.0 = full FFB)
    Steering torque filter="9" // Number of old samples to use to filter torque from vehicle's steering column (0-32, note that higher values increase effective latency)
    Steering torque zero-speed mult="0.30000" // Multiplier at zero speed to reduce unwanted oscillation from strong static aligning torque
    Steering torque sensitivity="1.00000" // Sensitivity curve applied to representable torques: 0.0=low 1.0=linear 2.0=high
    Steering torque minimum="0.00000" // Minimum torque to apply in either direction to overcome steering wheel's 'FFB deadzone' caused by friction
    Steering torque extrap time="0.01500" // Time in seconds to extrapolate steering torque based on current change (Range: 0.001 to 0.050. To disable, set 'blend' to 0.0)
    Steering torque extrap blend="0.00000" // Higher blends of extrapolated value allows driver to feel torque changes even when actual torque exceeds 'input max' (0.0=disables, 1.0=max)

    All those could be set in such a way to cause the FFB value to deviate from the steering arm force.

    There's also all the other effects that could also do the same, if enabled (and if they still operate, I haven't tested them) - such as the rumble strip stuff, jolt magnitude, throttle effects, brake effects etc.
     
  13. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    DRIFT Setting on Fanatec wheel has no effect on the "FFB Deadzone." And it's completely artificial so I'll go back to ignoring it.
     
  14. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    OK, that makes sense. The issue is that rF2 doesn't automatically re-load the "assigned" profile when you start the sim. Or, the profile that shows-up in the UI is not actually loaded...the reference is just sitting there for you to reload or reset back to that saved version (in case you've been fiddling in the UI). Dumb, but it makes sense.
     
  15. Racefreak1976

    Racefreak1976 Registered

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    Thanks for the effort DrR1pper! Thanks to you, I managed to cut off 3!! secs from my time on the Ring with the BayroE5.
    And the only thing I really changed was the FFB multiplier from 1.0 to 0.75. There should still be a lot of room for optimzation for me.
     
  16. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    OK, the "FFB Deadzone" we CSW owners are talking about is definitely not just related to rF2. I can get the same thing in iRacing. So we should likely be looking to Fanatec about this. My guess is that because the CSW has so much torque, a small FFB deadzone factor has been built-in to the drivers to prevent oscillation. So even when we set DEA to 0 on the wheel, it's not really NO dead zone for FFB effects, only for the movement of the wheel (which as discussed, has no deadzone). It's quite annoying and feels like a loose steering rack in a real car. Hope it gets ironed-out in the next driver update. If other wheels do not experience this "loose rack" at centre, especially when low or no forces are being transmitted, then it is 100% a Fanatec issue. If it affects other brands, then ISI needs to also help fix it.
     
  17. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Oh hell yeah!!!! [​IMG]

    I'm very happy to hear that. Now with a bit of time, go shave off another few seconds (with no doubt that you will). :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014
  18. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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  19. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    You know, looking back at the csr-elite graph....that actually looks like it could make sense of the graph:

    [​IMG]

    The response curve is very very linear with a very sharp and well defined ffb deadzone. As good a theory as this sounds, i'm still not 100% convinced thought because MystaMagoo fixed his ffb deadzone with 5% STM on his CSR-Elite which should be exactly the same for CSW users but you will need to confirm with him and test this out and discuss some more.

    Sorry i can't be of much practical help here. I'm very curious though as to the outcome.
     
  20. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    That sucks.

    I did read this though on that simhq site under the cons....

    Which confirms the video i presume? Also perhaps why MystaMagoo doesn't have the same problem as you guys perhaps? CSR-Elite have their own drivers and data back as far as Q4 2011.

    edit:

    Just saw you comment on the video Marc. My response is that if i had to guess....they've done this to extend the life of the motors. I'm sorry to say this but the motors used by fanatec are really bad for life-expectancy. They become notchy and stop working in around a year (happened twice to me in a year on my CSR-Elite....also the reason why i eventually got rid of it for the T500). So perhaps removing the initial ffb region would remove a good chunk of the time that the motor is spent working which in turn extends it's life-expectancy. Just a theory but i'd put my money on it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2014

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