Guide: Optimal FFB settings for rFactor 2 - The key to being in the "Zone" :D

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DrR1pper, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    anyone is there a setting in the controller json file that can mimic what happens when you raise the caster.

    For me a better self aligning torque in corners on my t300GTE=
    Using 1 linear STS

    Camaro GT ok at default
    Dw12 needs 8.0 caster
    clio needs 7 caster

    I'm trying to get a adjustment not dependant of touching /cheating the car setup.
     
  2. Led566

    Led566 Registered

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    Sorry to say that mate... but, despite your claim, you don't seem to have read the whole thread.
    For example, about the linearity "problem" there were PAGES written about it in this very thread!

    A simple question for you: BEFORE the linearity, have you checked with the Techade plugin if the FFB signal is well inside the dynamic range of your wheel?
    Then we can start talking about the rest...I can assure you there is a possible explanation for any single question you raised here.
     
  3. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    +1

    +1

    After having purchased a T300RS (and my friend has a TX), I have changed my approach to RF2 FFB with these wheels to something that I always preferred before. Set the TM T300RS/TX control panel's overall FFB force to 100% or at-least 90% and set RF2's STS to 0.275 (I also heard 0.272 mentioned). Don't worry about setting the control pane's overall forces to 60%, or whatever, for most linear output.

    These wheels don't have much total power/torque and therefore, setting them to linear or almost linear (control panel settings) means many of the forces are too weak. It's exactly the same with speakers. Why do so many home-theater systems, amps/receivers, etc. have modes like "night mode" and such? Because when you have your volume low, lots of dynamic range is NOT what you want because you won't hear much other than the upper-end of forces because your overall volume is too low. Of course, once you raise the volume to nice, loud levels then you want all that dynamic range. It's the same with our wheels. You just loose out on, or don't feel enough of, too many of the forces when setting a wheel with not much total force/torque to have a linear, dynamic range. Like with the speakers set to low volume, you want to enable a compressed (AKA dynamic range killing) mode like "night mode" so that you can still feel most things. That's why, for weaker wheels, linear FFB control panel settings are the opposite of what I personally want/like/need.

    It's another case of something which is only better "on paper" rather than in actual effect.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2015
  4. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    So spin your throwing the whole set ur wheel to 75% for linearity argument out of the window. Or is this just to cheat rf2?

    Since only a few months ago I stopped using 100% as I read its not so linear. But to be brutally honest I'm not sure I can tell actually playing a game whether its linear or not. All that it feels weaker.

    So u happy with your wheel?

    I also agree with the inconsistency with Isi cars.
     
  5. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Ya because you want a lot of compression or else you simply won't feel enough due to the wheel (or speakers) not being powerful/loud enough.

    Those graphs about linearity still stand, obviously - data is data - but I wouldn't use them for determining FFB levels because of what I explained above.

    For many years, I always compressed my forces to feel the low-end and mids better - from my Logi Momo Racing, to my G25, to my TM T500RS - but then I got caught up in all the "on paper" stuff in this and many other forums while kind of forgetting that the technically better and correct way "on paper" isn't always the better way in actual effect (generally speaking, not just with sims' FFB).

    Imagine Wheel A (weak wheel) only has power from 0-10 but Wheel B (strong wheel) has power from 0-100. Well if both wheels are perfectly linear then a 30% force output will be 30 power on Wheel B but only 3 power on Wheel A. 3 is a tiny amount of power overall to you regardless of how linear and 1:1 the wheel's forces are with relation to one-another.

    It's not about dynamic range when the total range itself is low/small. Compression is needed when the total range is small or else anything not in the upper range may be too weak/low/subtle/hidden.


    Try the following:
    --- TM control panel @ 100 overall, or at-least 90
    --- Keep everything else in the TMCP the same (100% periodic and constant, 0% spring and damper, check controlled by game).
    --- RF2's STS @ 0.275 or 0.272
    --- RF2's minimum torque @ at-least 6.5%
    --- Use the pedal plugin overlay and adjust FFB multi accordingly
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2015
  6. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    for me on my wheel the palatovs feels the worst out of even most mods i tried. Just doesnt feel iike a car.

    but hey ..

    who cares
     
  7. Led566

    Led566 Registered

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    Exactly.
     
  8. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    no disrespect but that sounds like a cop out answer..

    tyre slip/traction loss/brake lockup through a wheel will feel the same no matter what car your in. it may feel more or less dampened.

    but anyway..
     
  9. Led566

    Led566 Registered

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    And... is this just a wild assumption or could you offer some kind of rational explanation to backup that?

    Because you know, provided we are not talking about canned effects, I find very difficult to think that a 600HP, heavy RWD with large front tyres could offer the same feelings of a small FWD with smaller tyres.

    I regularly drive BMW 320D and smaller city cars like Fiat 500, Opel Adam, last week I drove Citroens D4 and D5 on Vairano track, I had also the chance to drove a Lotus Exige 240 with semislicks at Monza, I assure you that each one has its own distinct reactions and feeling, and those distinct feeling should be recreated in a serious sim.
     
  10. hexagramme

    hexagramme Member

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    Because a Palatov D4 should just feel like any ol' regular car, right?
    Nothing particularly special about that car, right? :rolleyes: :D

    Who cares, you ask? No one.
    Why? Because very often you obviously don't really know what you're on about.
    You latch unto some strange notion, and cling on to it no matter how much people try to present you with reasonable explanations.

    If you dialed down the attitude and pride, just a tad, you'd realize that you have tons of perfectly reasonable explanations presented to you as to why every single car in rF2 doesn't feel the same.
    Why on earth should they feel the same? It's a completely flawed logic you're presenting, and with that attitude on top on it.. Tiresome.

    Educate yourself a bit, for example about the D4, before getting frustrated and before lashing out at people's hard (top quality) work.
    Dennis Palatov was deeply involved in the virtual re-creation of his car, so that obviously speaks volumes about the quality of said car.
    Keep that in mind next time you claim that the Palatov in rF2 is ****.

    Oh dear...
    No disrespect, but disrespect.
    Nice. :D
     
  11. Comante

    Comante Registered

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    Actually, this statement is simply false. RF2 creators, made the FFB with the precise intent to recreate the forces on your wheel following the same principle of the real thing.This mean that front suspension geometry has a great impact in what arrive at the wheel. This make every single car a bit different from each other, or completely different, depending how they are built.
     
  12. Ozzy

    Ozzy Registered

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    I have to agree with the strange Palatov Steering. Without tweaking FFB multiplier and/or steering ratio this car is not drivable for me (G25). The FFB is clipping the whole time with default settings.
     
  13. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    just out of interest spin. just tried Rf2 back with 100% in the profiler, and a world of difference I felt like I had that 300£ wheel I bought rather than the DFGT before it. I'm not sure about the whole 75% thing now. This just feels better for me.. maybe I have to reinstall that palatov. :)

    actually just tried that Ferrari mod, wow impressive does feel like a car lol nice impressive ffb.. the palatov isn't as good at that imo. But the issue with the palatov is that you cant adjust caster, which in some cars like the dw12 is imperative for a stronger self aligning force. The palatov just feels all limp in corners..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2015
  14. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    :) Glad to hear that. Things aren't always about the "on paper" numbers and what's "technically" correct.

    If you want to adjust caster but can't, raise the FFB multi.

    By the way, don't be afraid to uncheck vehicle set and then raise the steering rotation (eg. 900 degrees, 500, etc.). In ISI physics land, you can have super slow steering ratios and still easily get the car around corners. It's just a core behaviour/characteristic of any/all versions of the ISI physics world going back to at-least F1 2002. So try it, it'll make turning the car "seem" more realistic from your POV because you actually need to turn your steering wheel.
     
  15. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    thank you


    thing is and this is my problem with rf2. its not that the overall ffb is weak, it that there no strength to the self aligning forces or whilst cornering. So if I'm in mid hard and fast turn, theres still a floppiness to the wheel, when i should be fighting the wheel due to forces and traction building up.

    hope you understand.

    for me this is where the caster helps and rf2 fails.
     
  16. Freddy3792

    Freddy3792 Registered

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    This is basically where most wheels fail. Most wheels are simply not strong enough to reproduce the actual FFB range plus most games have way to much self alligning torque. I know what you mean and with my G25 I used 1.5 to 2.0 as FFB multiplier to get that, but of course you get clipping. I also increased the caster quite a bit e.g. on the Corvette.

    Switchting to a Fanatec V1 made me drop the FFB multi to around one, but I still used higher caster for feel especially the slow speed feel was not that grea just a bit deas and couldnt feel whats going on. Now with the V2 I actually had to dail out the caster to make it driveable and FFB multi is now between 0.8 and 0.9 on most cars and of course no smoothing (kills feel for me).
    I guess when you put a DirectDrive on it it will be even better. RF2 uses no extra FFB effects therefore it is not that friendly to lower powered wheels and I personally drive with clipping (higher ffb multi) on lower powered wheels. Maybe you should give that a try just to see what happens.

    A good example is AC I drove it with the G25 and it was ok with basic settings. With the V2 the huge self alligning torque rips your hands off (tested around 1 year ago). It felt pretty terrible because the self allignment was way to strong and I had to drop the FFB power a lot, which resulted in less feedback.

    So is the FFB great in rF2? Yes! Do you have to make compromises with lower powered wheels? Yes

    Gesendet von meinem Nexus 5 mit Tapatalk
     
  17. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Dan, with the FFB settings I mentioned to you, along with raising the multi (so you are almost hitting red during turns) and/or raising caster, you should have you a pretty darn strong and resistive wheel.

    If you're talking specifically about when you get to a front tyre slip angle then I think I know what you mean. I think I know what you're talking about with some of the FFB issues that you feel regardless of FFB settings but, just to make sure, can you be more precise? Can you give me a car you feel it with? When do you feel it - while doing what?
     
  18. msportdan

    msportdan Banned

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    this in a nutshell

    just to add, GSC gives me a better feeling of this phenomen , Rf2 doesnt as much
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 4, 2015
  19. Ozzy

    Ozzy Registered

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    I didn't say I want 1:1 feedback. Also I thought the steering torque capability only is effective if it is greater than or equal the nominal max steering torque of the car?
     
  20. Axe

    Axe Registered

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    1.what is software FFB clipping and what is hardware FFB clipping?
    2. How to identify each of them and how to treat each of them?
    3. where exactly is "nominal max steering torque", how to find out exact value for each car, in which file it is and what is the exact name of the parameter?
     

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