Guide: Optimal FFB settings for rFactor 2 - The key to being in the "Zone" :D

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by DrR1pper, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll take a look at that, but at the moment, things are beginning to feel much better!
     
  2. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Something I noticed was that if I set the Overall Effects Strength over about 90, the curbs start feeling real "sharp". Like I don't feel the car roll up on the curb and then off, but I only feel the rumbles as I'm on top of the curbs.

    I'm very leery of using any centering spring as I don't really see how that doesn't add some sort of "fake" feedback. As am I with the Spring Effect and Damper Effect Strengths as I've never had to use them before to get "real" feedback from within a sim. I will probably work on lowering those to try to get a more "real" feedback, but I may be pretty close as-is. Do most people us SOME Spring Effect Strength and Damper Effect Strength in profiler for rFactor 2?
     
  3. Skan

    Skan Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    135
    Razor if You truly doubled those settings and/or tripled them and are just starting to feel things, Your wheel is just about dead. Your vehicle should be able to idle and make the wheel vibrate just a little (or to Your liking), You should feel every bump on the road, You should feel the difference between grass and tarmac, You should feel grip loss, all from this same wheel. It might just be time to give that wheel a hug and place it somewhere that is not in the way of a new one.
     
  4. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't find near as many settings in the .json file as was in the rFactor .ini file...so I left it alone figuring there was somewhere better to make adjustments.


    What I'm feeling down the straights is just a "rattle" type of effect. It's not like where bumps should be...it's more of a constant light rattle at high speeds. The forces are minimal and if I let go of the wheel the wheel doesn't even move. The car still runs straight when I feel this rattle. I tried fixing this by reducing the FF minimum Torque, but it never really went away. So I reset that and tried increasing the damping, but that didn't fix the problem either...so I reset that as well.

    As per TechAde's clipping plugin, I'm not getting any clipping.

    I agree, that's why I'm leery to raise either above zero.

    My very first settings I used were 100% Overall Effects Strength in the profiler...everything else set to Zero with enable centering spring checked but set to zero. I didn't mess with anything in-game and I had next to zero ffb. That's when I went searching for Momo settings from other users, but didn't find any. I stumbled upon this thread and the only thing I've changed is the car-specific feedback multiplier and the FF minimum torque. I literally haven't found any other settings than those in-game.

    The largest gains were made when I noticed the Vehicle Set button was no longer greyed out and I ticked it. I would still love an explanation of what that does :)

    The FFB of rFactor 2 doesn't look near as complicated as any other titled I've ever seen. So, I don't know how I could be having such a hard time setting it up when I'm the type of driver that likes a light FFB that is pure with no "canned" effects.
    As for the Skip Updates in the .json file, I'm a bit confused as I would think I would be getting hard, heavy ffb if my wheel couldn't keep up with the update rate, unless the result would be to disable any ffb when data was missed.
     
  5. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trust me...I would if I believed the wheel was dead. But, running other newer titles and having to turn everything down to get to my liking and running titles from the past and having the exact same feel as 10+ years ago...I just don't believe the wheel is dead. On titles I've played for over a decade with this same wheel, I've never had to turn forces up.

    I'm not trying to make enemies over this, so I trust nobody takes any of this personal...I just want to make sure I give this wheel a fair try since it's been nothing but good to me for so long.
     
  6. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm running Windows 7 64-bit, so the 64-bit version of the game shouldn't be causing any issues, right? I finding some odd things going on like when I set the Spring Effect Strength and Damper Effects Strength back to zero in the profiler, it doesn't seem to make a difference in the ffb. But, raising them to 30, then 60 then 90 as I described earlier sure felt like a world of difference. Not sure if there's an issue with 64-bit or my profiler (which I believe is also 64-bit). Have any of these issues been raised in the past?
     
  7. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll be sure to check each one out in the near future :)
     
  8. Skan

    Skan Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2014
    Messages:
    333
    Likes Received:
    135
    No enemies made here, this is force feedback talk. I can say that if You really used it at 100% then You might have damaged it. Some titles turn effects up or down or none at all. OR MAYBE You just like a stronger force feed back which is understandable. Either way, I'm saying to leave rF2 default settings alone until You get the wheel feeling the way You want it to feel.

    For example I drive a stock 2007 jetta daily. The closest official content car was a clio or civic. My wheel closely simulates the "feel" of my real daily driver. Not exact as my car does not shake the wheel during idle but it is not at all a race car.
     
  9. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,294
    Likes Received:
    36
    Your wheel is clearly not dead then, it's just old for rfactor 2 it would seem. Even if "other newer titles" feel exactly the same as those "10+ years ago" in ffb on your momo, that doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem with rf2's ffb. It could equally be a sign that all other games (including "other new titles") are just continuing to use outdated modes of ffb computation that your momo can handle but rf2's not so well.

    And if that's the case, then you'll just have to upgrade if you want the desired ffb experience in rf2.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2015
  10. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    Which default settings are you talking about? The only settings I've seen in-game are Force Feedback minimum torque and the Car-Specific feedback multiplier. Should I be using the profiler to get the wheel feeling the way I want it to feel?
     
  11. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't believe there is anything wrong with rf2's ffb. I was just thinking I was missing some ffb settings somewhere. Are the only settings I need to focus on the profiler settings, and then the Force Feedback minimum torque and the Car-Specific feedback multiplier? Then maybe fine tuning of the .json file once the first two are set as a base?
    And, isn't force feedback just a wheel taking raw input data from the PC and changing that input to an output through the wheel? I'm not seeing how a signal of raw data can render a wheel obsolete. Unless the data isn't simple raw data??? I'm no engineer or ffb guru, so pardon my ignorance :)
     
  12. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,294
    Likes Received:
    36
    Perhaps but then again maybe it won't help resolve the issues you have with the momo. I just don't know. But in the mean time, yes, profiler settings then car-specific ffb multi and then lastly minimum ffb torque.

    rf2's ffb is much more lively than in other sims with a lot of high frequency ffb signals dotted all over the place. If you're ffb wheel's motor doesn't respond quickly enough, it may miss out on producing those details all together. Think of it like the hardware equivalent of ffb smoothing in rf2. I'm not saying this is the case with your momo in rf2, i don't know since i've never tried a momo in rf2. Just a possible explanation for your observed issue(s)…or then again the issue maybe as simple as profiler, ffb multi and min torque.
     
  13. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    That makes sense. I'll start completely over with all default settings and adjust one at a time to see what's what. Are there any settings that will induce "canned" feedback? Should I be concerned with Spring Effect Strength and/or Damper Effect strength in Profiler adding latency or any other feedback that isn't pure?
     
  14. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,294
    Likes Received:
    36
    I think there are some which can be activated in rf2 but i don't think they are on by default and only accessible through a json file. So if you haven't played around with random settings, you should be fine.

    I recently learned from another member that spring and damper effects are present in rf2 if you activate them in your logitech profiler first. If not (i.e. 0%) then they won't be present in rf2. They are however artificial in nature. A Paul mentioned earlier, good chance the momo has plenty of natural dampening in the wheel assembly itself so as a starting point, i would turn them both to 0%. After you get everything else sorted first, you can go back and fiddle with them to your liking (if any).
     
  15. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    I probably won't raise those above zero then.

    This is odd...I just ran with the original unedited .json file, default setting in rf2 and the Overall Effects Strength at 90%. The ffb was pretty much as I described it in post #1066. It's very close to how I would think it should be. I'm still getting a little high speed rattle (like the ffb wants to do something, but never actually sends a signal strong enough to feel). I'm also lacking the fidelity to feel all the nuances of the road, but at least it's starting to feel close to what I'd want.
    I did try the skip update at 3 and at 1, but I'm not noticing a big difference from either.
    When I reduced the Overall Spring Effect, I didn't feel anything but the curbs. The good thing is, I didn't feel the high speed rattle. So, I increased it to 66. I could feel a bit of ffb, but not near as much as I'd like. I also noticed a hing of the high speed rattle. I think I'll settle on these setting for now, until I can figure out how to get rid of the high speed rattle:

    Skip Update (in the .json file) = 1
    Overall Spring Effects = 90

    I tried the Spring and Damper Effect Strengths in profiler as Skan suggested, but I didn't notice much of a difference, so I'll leave them at zero. Car-specific ffb multi and minimum ffb torque are also both set correctly. Everything else is set to it's default. If anyone knows how to get rid of the high speed "rattle", please let me know. Also, if there is a single setting that would increase the forces of the bumps in the road, please point in the right direction.
    My rattle and low fidelity could be a track/vehicle combo. I'll try some other tracks and vehicles and see if things are better elsewhere.


    ** EDIT **
    Skip Update of 3 seems to have reduced the high speed rattle substantially. I'll use that as my base until I find something better.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2015
  16. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    32
    I used a Logitech Momo Racing for more time and laps then any other wheel I've ever owned. I used to use 120% or 135% overall strength with damper and spring both set at 0.

    Anything less than 120% (or was it 135%) led to me not feeling very specific jolts and vibrations during braking which were vital to feel when really trying to get those ultimate world record laptimes in the very competitive rFactor 1 and GT Legends days without using ridiculous setups so many use. Possible clipping during turns didn't matter either as I had the FFB set to drop off during tyre slip so you would always feel that regardless of clipping (you can get a similar effect with the karts [and only the karts as far as I'm aware of] in RF2). So give that a shot. It might not work though and just kill all feel (except in the karts) because of the way front-grip drop-off FFB generally feels in RF2 but it doesn't hurt to try.
     
  17. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd be concerend with an Overall Effect Strength that high with the high speed rattle I'm experiencing. If I set the Overall above 90 the rattle turns in to quick jolts left and right. Any ideas how I can eliminate that rattle before I increase the Overall?

    ** EDIT **
    I just tried 120 and 135 for the Overall Effect and, as expected, the high speed rattle turned in to a violent shaking of the wheel. I tried adding some smoothing to take that rattle away and it worked quite well and made the FFB feel a whole lot better. I think I'll have to keep using the smoothing and maybe try to increase the overall effects while I increase the smoothing. I had to raise smoothing up to 15 in order to get rid of the rattle :(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2015
  18. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    32
    High speed rattle like when you go over curbs? Or like a constant buzzzzzzzzz (I believe from engine revs)? Or left-right oscillation while going down straightaways?
     
  19. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    Messages:
    3,294
    Likes Received:
    36
    When testing these higher overall effect strength values did you revert the rf2 steering/ffb torque minimum back to 0%? You need to do this because increasing the overall effect strength will usually decrease the initial ffb deadzone range which will therefore reduce the amount of steering/ffb torque minimum % required in rf2. Not reducing it when increasing the overall effects strength is very likely the reason why you're getting violent shaking of the wheel.

    If you change the profiler overall effects strength and/or rf2 car-specific ffb multiplier, both can affect the optimal steering/ffb torque minimum value for rf2.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2015
  20. raZor-US

    raZor-US Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2015
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's like the start of oscillation. It sounds like gears clicking together, but if I take my hands off the wheel, the car still drives straight. The higher the ffb is set, the worse this gets...to the point of turning the wheel if I take my hands off the wheel. At which point the wheel will begin oscillating.
     

Share This Page