Grip

sg333 said:
Dont compare sim to sim. Compare sim to reality. Pick any Corvette or Nissan GT racecar onboard footage from youtube, analyse and try drive in a similar manner (good momentum through corners, fast entry, full throttle out of corners). RF2 doesnt like you doing the same. Its like the track is damp/wet or completely cold tires, even when all conditions are optimal.
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There you go. It is actually very cool.

Start Pablos video at 2:15



Aaand this one at 0:35

 
GTClub_wajdi said:
WTF? learning to drive?! what does the hell grip do with driving?!
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Yes, he meant: Learn to drive under wrong grip situation. That's they never understand. To be quick or consistent there's nothing to do with the real track physics properties.

Just to sum up: I was in a real kart racing last night. Unfortunately, we had a storm during the race. The tracks was cold (water + night), slick tyres and the track almost flooded at some parts.

I feel more comfortable during cornering yesterday at those terrible real life conditions than racing with virtual rF2 Corvette. Yes, I recognize: the steering reactions (FFB), the mass transference and the so on is impressively real in rF2 when comparing to real driving, they did a wonderful job, BUT, the grip doesn't seem calibrated.
 
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slo said:
Hi,

I use rf2 since a few month and one of the most frustrating things in rf2 are the absolute unrealistic grip level.

the grip in corners are too low (understeering), cars with lot of tourque react very (too) sensible by acceleration (wheelspin and resulting in oversteering) and it's nearly impossible to catch the car if it's begins to oversteer (thats the most frustrating) :(.

I know that it's necassary to warm up the tires and get rubber on the road (real road etc... on real race tracks this doesn't have such an effect like in rf2).

BUT that brings not the expected results and in real life, the physic of cold slicks is also absolute different.

I drive Touring car (BMW E30) with Slicks on RaceTracks in my freetime and drive a lot on real roads with road-tires and semi slicks - never ever had such a bad grip level by same speed an dry conditions by any real car and tire combination like in rf2...

Best physics i every seen in a race simulation - race07 with all settings to realistic. I tried my car (E30) on an track i really good know (Salzburgring) and it's nearly 100% the same like real life.

I hope in future there is an better tire model and physics, otherwise its always like driving on ice...
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Interesting gettting a race drivers take. Don't you think cars understeer terribly in Race 07 and expansions?
 
kaptainkremmen said:
I didn't mean to offend. I appreciate it wasn't your best drive, hence why I suggested it wasn't used as a reference in the grip argument. :o
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I know dude no offence taken i should of said so in the description my bad :p Ive still to get used to the trackir, slowly getting there :)
 
Satangoss said:
Yes, he meant: Learn to drive under wrong grip situation. That's they never understand. To be quick or consistent there's nothing to do with the real track physics properties.

Just to sum up: I was in a real kart racing last night. Unfortunately, we had a storm during the race. The tracks was cold (water + night), slick tyres and the track almost flooded at some parts.

I feel more comfortable during cornering yesterday at those terrible real life conditions than racing with virtual rF2 Corvette. Yes, I recognize: the steering reactions (FFB), the mass transference and the so on is impressively real in rF2 when comparing to real driving, they did a wonderful job, BUT, the grip doesn't seem calibrated.
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I repeat, this grip issues isn't in all the situations, but only in low speed corners and with some cars, specially the GTR and the C6( much more the GTR than the C6)!
The Megan is quite good for me, I can push this car every where( I had already 2 great race with it and I really enjoyed driving this car)! also the Clio and the 370z before the last update that killed that car for me! dont knoe about open wheelers, becuase I dont drive them!
I think that this grip issues has to do with the unfinished tires model of rfactor 2!
 
We consistently have professional full-time racing drivers giving us the opposite feedback, that actually a green track can have less grip than we simulate due to dust and debris...
 
I believe and think that the grip is there.
By cons I believe and am certain should watch their speed in the replay and that in reality it does not happen.
We are not amateurs and pro and settings are fine although obligatoirements have believed.

Learning is a long way.
Burning stages is useless.
Each track is different (grip, temperature) that play on the settings of the car.

The driving obviously affects the tires and the endurance race.

We must question the time and not blame the game or the other.

I lost four seconds with the Commander of Sebring but I'm not saying this is the fault of ISI but that I would be there in reality because I'm not pro.

The adhesion in the current version is different ... but probably more realistic exact.

We need to change the stroke settings that today are no longer valid.
 
+1 for 'learn to drive'.

I was crying about grip when I first bought rf2 a month or so ago. I literally couldn't complete a lap in the skippy, the megane was impossible to handle and the marussia and the vette really did feel like ice. But I trusted the accurate physics and tyre modelling, and persevered. A few days ago I was beating AI times in the megane for the first time, and the 'feel' of the car has now completely changed for me. I feel as though I have learned, subconsciously or otherwise, what the car/track is telling me through the FFB and the audio. Even with the limited amount of information feedback a sim has to offer, I would argue that the megane has tonnes of grip - when only a month ago I was convinced they forgot to put the tyres on.

I hope the developers keep listening to their experts and don't back down under pressure from the masses with regards to this.
 
Tim Wheatley said:
We consistently have professional full-time racing drivers giving us the opposite feedback, that actually a green track can have less grip than we simulate due to dust and debris...
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Too vague... Who, where, which car? I'm afraid this single statement is not enough to justify the question raised.
 
For God sake, if you learn to drive on ice it doesn't mean ice got grip! The question has nothing to do with learn to drive or not.

C'mon it's not so difficult to understand.

zenrael said:
+1 for 'learn to drive'.

I was crying about grip when I first bought rf2 a month or so ago. I literally couldn't complete a lap in the skippy, the megane was impossible to handle and the marussia and the vette really did feel like ice. But I trusted the accurate physics and tyre modelling, and persevered. A few days ago I was beating AI times in the megane for the first time, and the 'feel' of the car has now completely changed for me. I feel as though I have learned, subconsciously or otherwise, what the car/track is telling me through the FFB and the audio. Even with the limited amount of information feedback a sim has to offer, I would argue that the megane has tonnes of grip - when only a month ago I was convinced they forgot to put the tyres on.

I hope the developers keep listening to their experts and don't back down under pressure from the masses with regards to this.
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Satangoss said:
For God sake, if you learn to drive on ice it doesn't mean ice got grip! The question has nothing to do with learn to drive or not.

C'mon it's not so difficult to understand.
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Yeah, I do understand the argument, and perhaps the phrase 'learn to drive' is beyond harsh. I still can't get behind this assertion that the grip is incorrect though.

Which cars modelled within RF2 have you driven on a track in real life? I'd like to hear from the people that have. I'm assuming that ISI's test drivers have at least some experience of this form. I agree it would be nice if we could find this information out.

I just think people are a bit too quick to jump on the 'its wrong' bandwagon simply because its different to what they've been used to previously.
 
zenrael said:
Which cars modelled within RF2 have you driven on a track in real life? I'd like to hear from the people that have. I'm assuming that ISI's test drivers have at least some experience of this form. I agree it would be nice if we could find this information out.
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Having real life race drivers involved in testing/development means nothing. Ben Collins helped make pCARS what it is today. See my point?

Also, you can adapt to driving conditions, it doesnt mean they are correct to begin with.
 
zenrael said:
Which cars modelled within RF2 have you driven on a track in real life? I'd like to hear from the people that have. I'm assuming that ISI's test drivers have at least some experience of this form. I agree it would be nice if we could find this information out.
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jtbo said:
That means that the best driver of Formula 2 tested rF2 and consider car to be good, I mean he won the championship, he is the best driver in that series, really great achievement for Luciano and I'm sure few guys at ISI marketing are very happy, they can advertise by saying Formula 2 champion has helped in development of Formula 2 car, that adds bit more weight again to such advertising phrases :)
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Here you go.
 
Im quite happy with how the FIA F2 grips. Same with the Megane. Its mostly the Corvette and Nissan suffering from these problems.
 
Rich Goodwin said:
Any info on who your test drivers are, Tim? I'm not doubting the feedback etc, just genuinely curious to know who you guys have testing rF2 :)
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Most of the test drivers are sim racers, and we organize them into regular races. We have quite a few race drivers (incl. world champions, if you feel the need to know what levels we're talking about) who have access, they tend to email us directly.

We're not in the habit of using endorsements so we can put a name to the comments like you might see in a couple of other products. With us you can take or leave the info posted already, and can disagree all you want about the grip levels. We'll just work towards what we know to be right. :)
 
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