Grip

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by slo, May 22, 2013.

  1. F2Chump

    F2Chump Registered

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    Waiting for AC....I don't want to commit to a T500 if I find out that CSRe is the best wheel.....it probably is, but it's also hexy back here, $900+ just for the base and wheel.
     
  2. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    I think generally the openwheelers feel much better than the gt/roadcars in rF2 because of their rockhard suspension. All the nuance on the road/gt cars is lost in the mush that is transmitted by the G27 which I use. This results in a somehow disconnected feel and a less sense of speed somehow. I feel like I'm going 140 but when I look at the dash, only doing 50 or so.

    Let's turn it around, with all the resources and partnerships ISI can into, I'd be very surprised if they don't get right, especially with the F2 and Marussia.

    Who knows other sims might can some effects to increase the FFB despite of car setup and added control. I know with RFT2011 on rF1 and RealFeel, they gave the wheel a slight twitch when shifting up or down. Normally that is the stuff you do in a motion rig, but it felt awesome through the wheel, however that doesn't mean it is correct :)

    edit:
    I promised myself this (G27) will be my last commercial wheel, despite of the qualities of AC or rF2, it just does the sims short in my opinion. When this breaks down I'm done with it. I'm too spoiled by using servo wheels at work and as I'm seeing a couple of guys working on lower cost servo projects I'll probably build my own in a year or two.
     
  3. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    don't believe myself that cars like these behave like this in the slow stuff.

    If this specific cars behave like that in those specific situation i really don't know but the Steering Wheel feels wrong to me.
     
  4. baked bean

    baked bean Registered

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    Yea if cash is not an issue then the fanatec wheel set is the way to go, plus they look god damn sexy as hell.
     
  5. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    If cash is not an issue you can spend your money better :p (Momo GP2 wheel :D )
     
  6. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Yes classic Formulas in rF2 certainly offer far more feel, totally agree there and this is where it baffles me more when it comes to stuff like the GTR and vette and the guessing game that starts when you meet a hairpin for example. Because i can feel the tyres in the FFB in the slow stuff with the 60's cars, suddenly the cars become more predictable and easier to read as to when is safe to power out of the corner. This then doesn't add up as really, as you would think a car from the 60's would be the unpredictable car in these moments and not a modern pure race car where pure mechanical grip and aero are so high these days.

    Again i'm not sure if this is FFB or physic related, i really don't know, but it's odd. GTR and vette wheel goes limp basically in the slow stuff, no detail there to tell you what is happening.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2013
  7. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    Thread:)
     
  8. baked bean

    baked bean Registered

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    The current tire model seems to like less camber for most cars, this way the heat is spread more even across the contact patch giving better tire wear plus more grip. On the vette its around 2.0- front 1.4- rear, Works for me any way.
     
  9. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    :confused: Not sure what you mean.

    Let me explain a bit. I realise when the wheel looses friction, i presume it's to simulate the tyres slipping, ok i understand and get that.

    Problem with the mentioned cars though is there is no progression in the way that happens, you turn in and bam it's gone, no detail, nothing. Just goes, looses friction, it behaves as if you have just thrown loads of input into the wheel and the car has lost all traction completely and doesn't offer the progression/fidelity i would expect. But the main thing is really once you have committed to the turn and you are mid corner, that is then when i need the detail and just don't get it with those cars. It's exactly what i hated about rF1 and more recently pCARS, these two cars feel like cars from pCARS. In rf2 though they don't get funky on the limit like pCARS, but the slow stuff, they are like an SMS car.
     
  10. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    I meant that I'm absolutely agree with you! with the GTR and the C6 in the low speed corners, *there is almost no details in the ffb and the ffb is a bit flat ! the car doesn't tell you anything, specially out of the corners! the car doesn't give you any input, you can't know if it is the right time to "give gas"! I give gas, not because the car tells me via ffb to do it, *I do it because, by memory, I learned that is that point of the corner I have to give gas!
    You drive the C6/GTR not because they comunicate to you via FFB, but you drive them with the memory and this isn't realistic and right!
     
  11. BazzaLB

    BazzaLB Registered

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    I tried that and reduced rear ARBs which made quite a difference. :)
     
  12. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    LMAO!!!! What are you like 10 years old? Or perhaps you're a girl? hahahaha. Can you get dramatic enough or what. Stop taking yourself so seriously buddy, and grow a pair. hahahaha.
     
  13. Satangoss

    Satangoss Registered

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    It's not that complicated... if people are saying the green track grip is ok, then I suppose they're able to do decent lap times at this specific scenario. If the videos prove the opposite, so those opinions are not based in real arguments. All great laps I've seen on Youtube show the drivers fighting against the steering wheel like hell as they were driving a rally car. When I see clearly the rubber line on tarmac, the driving looks much more plausible. The hot laps on real onboard capturing show a totally different driving, when the drive has to do occasional corrections, but not in all corner entries and exits.

    The true is, we can always save the real road to have a believable grip since the very beginning of the race weekend, so the problem is more conceptual than practical.

    In addition, an artificially louder tyres sound plus a 5.1 sound system will help to attenuate the lack of FFB at low speeds.

     
  14. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    You were banned from pCars because you're a constant whiner. Your criticism isn't constructive.
     
  15. Satangoss

    Satangoss Registered

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    I was not aware of it, I was thinking it should be the opposite, since the the tyres heat is majorly generated during cornering and more camber should be more contact patch in corners. I'll give a try although it sounds a bit odd, at least you're racing in a very very long straights circuit.
     
  16. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Agree with the opinion of FONismo in relation to the conduct of the two vehicles and information on the steering wheel.

    However, I can find some of these properties on the other vehicle too. Maybe not quite as pronounced but available and I think the main reason lies in the force distribution of the two axes (front/rear) and forwarding these to the steering wheel.

    The FFB in rF2 feels to much front axle biased.

    The rear axle is allmost non-existent on the steering wheel, and not only lateral also the longitudinal forces are not clearly communicated.

    For example the traction difference in a rear-wheel drive is completely absent or too late perceptible.

    Sometimes i get the feeling the front axle is nailed down while the rear has to low or even no weight and that isn't delivered adjacent forces. In some cases it feels like a pendulum effect starting from the front axle, the rear axle is rotated around without to feel any indicator.

    The dynamics of the rear axle is too vague imho. :)

    Sorry for my bad english.
     
  17. Satangoss

    Satangoss Registered

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    Yes, but the major problem is: the rear axle information is less from the steering wheel and much more of G-force plus visual. If you throttling and there's not the expected G-force pushing your back onto the seat it means the car is losing traction and you have to loose the throttle pedal. On the contrary, if you fell to much power in the middle of corner, before the car starts to understeer you're already able to reduce the throttling. Normally, the racesims just warns you the car is understeering when it's too late and there's always a speed waste on it. In real life, part of this wasted time is avoidable.

    Most FFB should be from front axle and I think this is correct in rF2 but I can see your point, when there's an oversteering the steering wheel should become lighter, maybe this effect should be more sharp in rF2.

     
  18. Rony1984

    Rony1984 Registered

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    may it be a good idea to drop this subject for now and wait for the advancements to the tire model are there? If the tire model is changed, which is on the list, so will the ffb. Hence IMHO it doesn't really make sense to keep discussing this as things may be altered in the future
     
  19. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    That's true with the G forces. However, the rear axle steering behavior indirectly affects too, most recently over the bodywork. A certain part of rear suspension dynamics are still transmitted to the steering wheel in a real car. How it is atm in rf2 feels unnatural for a part.

    Maybe this can be solved by offering the option to the user by a slider to balance the force distribution from front to the rear axle and forwarding it to the steering wheel.

    @Rony1984

    I also thought that, is the tire model ready to go ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2013
  20. speed1

    speed1 Banned

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    Ups double post. Deleted. Sorry !
     

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