Grip

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by slo, May 22, 2013.

  1. GaetanL

    GaetanL Registered

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    Sorry but I don't think that, Motec is a powerfull tool. You can cross several chart type if necessary.
    And it's still mostly less subjective than about people who have never driven the car in question.
    Even your video that shows a lack of grip is normal with cold tires and track with not enough rubber,is not enought for here, because it is not easy to understand everything that happens just looking. The data whose are extracted are more objective and more easily comparable to the reality before video and still before feelings.
     
  2. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Yes this and the same with the Newey video posted a few pages back as evidence, it's not the norm for that to happen and he could of lapped the rest of the day and not done that once, freak moments.

    Motec means nothing to me when i can not feel anything in the wheel. Motec can tell me what is happening is right or wrong, doesn't matter. I can't feel grip, rear of car or tyres in the cars mentioned in the slow corners. My issues with rF2 is not in the limit, rF2 feels good on the limit. It''s the slow stuff and i have no feedback in the wheel where i need it, it's a guessing game as to when you can plant the throttle on exit and there is literally nothing. They feel like rFactor cars and don't feel like they are using the new stuff.
     
  3. GaetanL

    GaetanL Registered

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    I can understand that, but its a different thing that to say, lack of grip or physic are wrong.
    Motec is enough to see that. After, only for the feeling with the car is an other problem. How could restitute as better as possible the sensation with the car with only a FFB ?
    For me the FFB is not enough to feel when you reach the limit and predict when you go over. I try to modify G-Force on virtual head for judge the g-force applied (with visual's effect). For me is a good help in addition of a good FFB.
    But with same physic that a real car, we will always have a big handicap in comparison with real pilots, lack of feel for G-Forces. But try to compensate that with a modification of our physic in game it's a shame for a real simulator ;)
     
  4. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Yes you are right regarding real forces. I use TrackIR so head physics etc is not going to help. The reason i pinpoint physics is an issue is really because all other cars i can feel the tyres pefectly and can feel the rear of the cars and so feel in total control at all times. GTR and vette feel very very old skool in the slow stuff, straights and the quick stuff there is a good feeling of tyres on the track and and ok feeling of weight. But as soon as i get to the hairpins and slow corners, it becomes a guessing game for me and like rFactor. Of course if you keep driving these cars then you begin to make up for it's shortcomings by doing something different but it still doesn't make up for total lack of feel and fidelity to the cars in the wheel, lack all detail.

    Watch that Paul Ricard lap on the previous page, i can see the car stepping out in the slow stuff, so i am not complaining about the rear of the car in the physics within rF2. A car with that amount of power will move around when pushed. But when it happens in rF2 with the GTR and vette, you get no feedback to say that is whats happening, it's a guessing game and you have to rely fully on visual cues. There is no fidelity and detail there in the FFB to tell you the driver that the rear is coming round.

    Most of the rFactor cars were the same and then you had mods like HistorX that made you feel tyres in the wheel and you could feel the rear at all times. Same as the cars from Niels and some1, they managed to squezze that feel somehow where others didn't.

    I really like the majority of rF2 cars but these two GT cars baffle me completely
     
  5. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    HistorX is a great example of how we cant go by feelings. In HistorX, with their recommended settings, real feel, etc. The oversteer feeling and wheel weight feeling of the FFB is sooo much better than without it, feels much more natural as well. It feels almost like a new sim. HOWEVER, going in that direction with the FFB completely kills and dulls out all feelings of front brake lock up, front tyre sliding, front grip on turn in and mid corner, etc.

    Feeling the car relative to how the sim works FFB with your wheel is all subjective/personal. I was faster and more consistent in HistorX without the recommended settings/realfeel. Sure I didnt feel the oversteer as much/as good, and the wheel feels generally less natural, BUT I get way more info on OVERALL grip changes throughout the corner phase.
     
  6. GaetanL

    GaetanL Registered

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    Please try this set for the vette at Sebring (12h version), it's not perfect but I find the vette more predictable with it. If you can give me your opinion about it, maybe after you will find the vette better :)
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9c8hncjmvjip9uu/c6r GAE.svm

    Also I use this line in PLR file for the head movement (but i think is more personnel than a set to get a good feeling with it)
    Look Up/Down Angle="1.00000" // Angle to look up/down (pitch) w/ controller in radians (= degrees / 57)
    Leanahead Angle="0.25000" // Angle to lean head (roll) w/ steering in radians (= degrees / 57)
    Look Roll Angle="1.00000" // Angle to lean head (roll) w/ controller in radians (= degrees / 57)
    Glance Angle="1.00000" // Angle to look left/right (yaw) w/ controller in radians (= degrees / 57)
    Lookahead Angle="0.20000" // Angle to lookahead (yaw) w/ steering in radians (= degrees / 57)
    Head Physics="1.00000" // Fraction of head physics movement applied to cockpit view (position AND rotation)
    Head Rotation="0.50000" // Additional head physics multiplier affecting rotation only
    Exaggerate Yaw="0.64000" // tourne le regard dans le sens de la rotation du volant, idéal pour viser le point de corde
    Overlay Height="0.04000" // Distance from geometry to help sort drawing skids and grooves
     
  7. Satangoss

    Satangoss Registered

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    I said that a number of times, but it's very difficult when people don't want (or even can't) understand.
     
  8. baked bean

    baked bean Registered

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    Even at 1st when i was a load of crap at the game being kinda new to sim racing i still didnt blame physics i just got on with it, practiced more (not much better by the way lol). We are not going to get the perfect sim its impossible, there will be compromises.
    Like Lowrider says works the other way too, if you cant control the car it dont mean the physics are ****ed, just means you cant control the car weather the physics are right or wrong.
     
  9. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Then you need to start reading stuff fully and not just the parts you want to justify your opinion. Please stop if you don't understand what is going on. People CAN drive, yes, that's right, CAN drive!!!, but that does not mean they are right. Please stop with your nonsense.



    GaetanL : Thanks i will try these, although, as said i use TrackIR so changing visual stuff is uesless for me. Adjusting setup i have tried but i will give your stuff a chance.
     
  10. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    And without facts such as showing something on motec which has already been mentioned, nothing you say means YOU'RE right. Get over yourself. This argument will never end without FACTS!!



    I'm sure there are issues, hence the reason why ISI's physics guys are still working on things. duh.
     
  11. baked bean

    baked bean Registered

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    ill stop when you stop son, what gives you the right to call my opinions nonsense, is it because they aint same as yours. Jog on bro
     
  12. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Pretty immature response tbh, son and bro, ok...

    It seems you have proven me right and read exactly what you want from my post, this being "nonsense" in this case, got all excited and jumped and posted. Please read the post and that parts that say "CAN"in large. You said people shouldn't call physics wrong when they can NOT control a certain car/s which in this case is the vette and GTR. When really had you read previous posts from me and others, everyone complaining is saying they CAN drive the cars, CAN drive the cars, ok? But, just because they can and can drive them fast, that does not mean that yes the physics are right.

    I have no feedback on what the cars are doing in the slow stuff and can still drive, but, i can drive only by guessing more than feel through the wheel and fidelity of FFB and/or physics when it comes to the slow stuff. It's a guessing game in the slow stuff with the two mentioned cars.

    I don't think your opinion on the physics are nonsense as i don't know what your opinion is. i do however find your somewhat elitist posts regarding parts such as " if you cant control the car it dont mean the physics are ****ed, just means you cant control the car weather the physics are right or wrong" as nonsense when clearly myself and others have stated that they can indeed drive all the cars but feel that does not mean the cars are right.
     
  13. Satangoss

    Satangoss Registered

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    The funny thing is there're several guys stating they can drive fast and don't have any problems with the grip and when you see their videos the lap times are just average. No sliding but not lapping fast as well. Just saying.
     
  14. KernigWRC

    KernigWRC Registered

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    @FONismo wich mods are you driving in rF1 and how do you think rf2 gt physic should be (call a rF1 mod as example please)

    I'm just interested.
     
  15. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    I have not raced rF1 for a long time now really but the NAGT cars always felt good for rF1 cars aswell as the PCC mod. Although not direct comparisons to the rF2 cars so not really helpful. I don't want rF2 to feel like these though. The reason these stand out for me in rF2 is because the other rF2 cars in general feel great. The 370 z actually is a GT car in rF2, this feels good.

    Best feeling stuff for me in rF1 was not race GT stuff but rather road cars such as the Supra and vette from Niels and some1 and of course stuff like HistorX.

    Endurance SP2 is better but still it's more about sounds and visuals with that mod
     
  16. baked bean

    baked bean Registered

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    So tell me dude where in my elitist posts have i ever said you or any one else cant drive? im subsribed to your channel ive watched your vids, i think you read something wrong or you either have a problem with me. All i said is it works both ways the way the argument was put forward, i didnt mean you personally
    or any one in particular, like saying just because you can drive them fast dose not mean the physics are right, but it dose not mean they are wrong either dose it. Its all down to personal opinion, you see a problem, i dont think its that much of an issue, some others think theres a big issuse and theres others that think there is none.

    And as for me proving you right lol Your so clever well done give your self a pat on the back.
     
  17. Muxi-Mux

    Muxi-Mux Registered

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    The Megane in rain offers a way better feeling of grip as the FR3.5 in dry. That seem a bit wrong to me. The Missan GT-R and Z370 works ok to me but the C6R also feels strange. In Sebring (dry) with the Vette im just 2sec off with Wet-Tires compared to Dry-Tires which also seems a bit wrong to me.

    But what makes me really wonder is that the feelings of some guys are so far away from some other ones. Of cause, every one has own feelings and opinions, but even its stunning.
     
  18. CdnRacer

    CdnRacer Banned

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    Here is a new one in these forums. "If you don't agree with me and my cool buddy over here you must be slow". I wonder what's next. "If you don't agree with me, you must be ugly". LOL.
     
  19. KernigWRC

    KernigWRC Registered

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    @FONismo: Maybe you will be more excited about Assetto Corsa physics. I prefer the ISI Corvette on difficult tracks like Malaysia, Portugal or Monaco because its challenging in a authentic way and you can learn it. I dont know how realistic the corvette is but I trust ISIs knowledge.

    Greetings
     
  20. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Ah the memories! After you asked me earlier what i liked. I went looking for old league footage, found this old league race from the club we used to have, still active now. Had 2nd here in the vette, this mod was awesome. I'm looking forward to when rF2 is mature enough for stuff like this again. I really miss club racing



     

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