Lol really, can see why your having trouble now Davo, if your using same technique from Clio and taking it to the GTR, C6R, & MR01, can only spell trouble.
All cars have grip issues but some hide it better than others , EVERY Gmoter game seems exhibit the same issues I assume due to the core underlying physics. You notice games like GTRE Hide it the most but at a compromise to how twitchy / tight the cars are to drive as a result the cars in GTRE feel somewhat heavy and cumbersome and unresponsive under braking even the F3000. GSC probably does the best at hiding the issues with the cars still remaining quite responsive and twitchy but then allot of people also complain that GSC is to easy to drive and that the Formula 3 in that also seems slugish which I would agree with in some ways. As a whole RF1 and RF2 are not bad I just feel that there are blatant physics holes in them when driving at the limit , i racing also suffers from issues more notably with lighter faster cars above the star Mazda. Last years FSONE mod used by FSR drove more along the lines of the GSC F3 and the GTRE F3000 ( but obvously faster ) but again it seems allot of users used to ISI cars thought of that as being to stable and unrealistic. I do know of some top simracers that think of last years FSONE mod as being one of the best F1 cars in a simulator and I tend to agree, though again it still suffers from some of the same physics holes that g-moter has. Getting into dead slides , strange tank slappers , a lack of feel on tracks with slow corners and lack of low speed grip. Personally what I would like to see is something that's twitchy like RF2 but at the same time has the controllability and slack on the limit that is found in real cars and in software is probably most notable in NKP ( which is why it is generally celebrated as having one of the best tire models) Maybe AC will deliver that maybe not. As for RF2 I'm regularly racing on the ISR megane server and for now you can get quite enjoyable racing from it. Though again you really notice issues in the physics especially on low speed corners or how the car behaves when its unsettled by bumps , that is despite the fact that the megane is one of the easiest most stable cars to drive in RF2. Also I think RF2 seems to have some issues with how cars respond to light knocks in multilayer racing in that sometimes people will go flying from a tiny nudge. As a whole RF2 just feels like a slightly patched RF1 with real feel at 100% Some of the cars are slightly more controllable offer more depth and are generally more forgiving than RF1 but others seem simply wonky. But then again RF2 is still in alpha really don't know why ISI think its out of beta... Technically RF2 probably has the potential to offer allot more than RF1 but I'm only really interested in racing and how cars handle when trying to put down top lap-times.
The ability to control a car can't be the only indicator to evaluate if physics are realistic or not! If some physics or behaviors are wrong (or at least not reasonable), it stays wrong! Even if i'm able to drive this car fast and controllable.
Exactly I and others don't have a problem racing in RF2 and can still win races on-line / drive in what looks like a normal way but still feel there are big problems in the physics.
Bang on and exactly my point on the previous page! Just because you CAN drive a lap on a green track in rF2 perfectly fine as an example, Does NOT mean that it is correct, this is what people need to realise. To many people on this forum with rose tinted glasses. Also too many people that base their opinions on one part of a sim and generalise the sim on that one area and use crap to describe something, when really nothing in rF2 is crap. I find the vette and GTR rather confusing and broke rather than crap, but they have some good aswell. Just can't take some people serious on here that make out every car is fine when really some cars have big issues. Whether you people can drive car or not really is irrelevant, some cars still have funky areas in their physics, you can make out people are trolling as much as you like. I am not a troll for a start and have genuine concerns and i hope people realise this. While james and others do come across wrong i think with some cars they are right on the button. Problem is in james case he uses some flaw against the whole game rather than it being something wrong with a certain car. The issue is not widespread in rF2, for me only really the GTR and Vette really feel very very funky. No feel whatsoever in the slow stuff and yes very very rF1.
I see many people to complain about the grip. they talk a lot about personal feelings. But I never see people show with data extraction, the conditions in which they feel there is a problem. Should we remain on feelings?
Does anyone remember how the Endurance mod felt all those years ago now on release? Inpaticular the GT2 cars? Any of you remember all the brake locking threads, vette was really temperamental under braking. Cars were letting go for no reason in the slow stuff, so many WTF just happened moments. You could get round it by blipping on downshifts which any decent sim racer does anyway but still alot struggled with the GT2 cars. This is what the GTR and vette remind of in rF2, the same feeling in the slow stuff, that same guessing game, searching for feel. Enduraces patched it in the end, and it was much better, still that was an odd mod though.
"Cars have changed, driving styles have to change so I’m trying to adapt and learn new things in the car on the track." - Tony Kanaan I believe he was referring just to IndyCar series alone.
No **** u have to drive according to the spec of the vehicle.......good to see you aren't using appeals to stupidity to win your silly arguments. Fanboys never cease to amaze me.
MoTeC isn't enough to people that says rF2 has hard grip issues. Doesn't matter if you show a FR3.5 driving at 30mph supporting 1.7Gs with no problems, or if you show how possible is to maintain a slide during complete rotations with cars that can do that. If you do that, someone will say that your car is pivoting and front wheels are drifting with no sense or something like that. Even if is impossible to find something they are saying that can be seen in real world. I'm very stubborn, but I'm still waiting video of real world GT1 maintaining slides, or driving on limit in a different way that rF2 in same conditions. This is the way I drive a GT car when I'm near limit or I'm overdriving the car, It is not in in low speed conditions, but is to show, AGAIN, that rF2 is not bad at all in ALL grip limit conditions: BSNismo, here some videos of weirdness grip moments in real world with GTs that I posted before. But really I'm annoyed by people says grip are completly weird every moment you go near limit. At 0:44: There are more, GTs spinning in formation laps, Skip Barbers spining at 50kp/h, but this two are cars can be compared with rF2 cars, high spec GTs, and see how the lose grip, weird, I know... when you do not drive really smooth, this cars can be lost really easy. We do not see lots of accidents because these guys are proffesionals and can fell much more information and in real time that we can't. I think most of people plays with a lag of ~50ms, and I tested to put low graphics to get instant response as someone said before, and is awesome how you can catch every little movement, not about FPS, is about response. PD: I think is a bad idea to think is easy to drive a car at low speeds, I think is because when you go slower, you feel even less information than going faster, and you lose downforce, is harder to maintanin wieght transfer... something really important in such situations. I'm sure that if you show a MoTeC log spinning at low speeds you will se how the car is being dirven bad.
Specific Situations in videoclips with Spinnouts etc. are also quite pointless, as long as you don't have any concrete Informations about the conditions and setup of the whole Car, Track ect., as well as Drivers conditions like concentration in this moment etc. In this szene I can clearly see 24 cars are cornering quite smoothly. IMO 1 out of 24 is not exactly, what i would call a forceful argument.
Sorry but I don't think that, Motec is a powerfull tool. You can cross several chart type if necessary. And it's still mostly less subjective than about people who have never driven the car in question. Even your video that shows a lack of grip is normal with cold tires and track with not enough rubber,is not enought for here, because it is not easy to understand everything that happens just looking. The data whose are extracted are more objective and more easily comparable to the reality before video and still before feelings.
Yes this and the same with the Newey video posted a few pages back as evidence, it's not the norm for that to happen and he could of lapped the rest of the day and not done that once, freak moments. Motec means nothing to me when i can not feel anything in the wheel. Motec can tell me what is happening is right or wrong, doesn't matter. I can't feel grip, rear of car or tyres in the cars mentioned in the slow corners. My issues with rF2 is not in the limit, rF2 feels good on the limit. It''s the slow stuff and i have no feedback in the wheel where i need it, it's a guessing game as to when you can plant the throttle on exit and there is literally nothing. They feel like rFactor cars and don't feel like they are using the new stuff.
I can understand that, but its a different thing that to say, lack of grip or physic are wrong. Motec is enough to see that. After, only for the feeling with the car is an other problem. How could restitute as better as possible the sensation with the car with only a FFB ? For me the FFB is not enough to feel when you reach the limit and predict when you go over. I try to modify G-Force on virtual head for judge the g-force applied (with visual's effect). For me is a good help in addition of a good FFB. But with same physic that a real car, we will always have a big handicap in comparison with real pilots, lack of feel for G-Forces. But try to compensate that with a modification of our physic in game it's a shame for a real simulator
Yes you are right regarding real forces. I use TrackIR so head physics etc is not going to help. The reason i pinpoint physics is an issue is really because all other cars i can feel the tyres pefectly and can feel the rear of the cars and so feel in total control at all times. GTR and vette feel very very old skool in the slow stuff, straights and the quick stuff there is a good feeling of tyres on the track and and ok feeling of weight. But as soon as i get to the hairpins and slow corners, it becomes a guessing game for me and like rFactor. Of course if you keep driving these cars then you begin to make up for it's shortcomings by doing something different but it still doesn't make up for total lack of feel and fidelity to the cars in the wheel, lack all detail. Watch that Paul Ricard lap on the previous page, i can see the car stepping out in the slow stuff, so i am not complaining about the rear of the car in the physics within rF2. A car with that amount of power will move around when pushed. But when it happens in rF2 with the GTR and vette, you get no feedback to say that is whats happening, it's a guessing game and you have to rely fully on visual cues. There is no fidelity and detail there in the FFB to tell you the driver that the rear is coming round. Most of the rFactor cars were the same and then you had mods like HistorX that made you feel tyres in the wheel and you could feel the rear at all times. Same as the cars from Niels and some1, they managed to squezze that feel somehow where others didn't. I really like the majority of rF2 cars but these two GT cars baffle me completely
