Graphics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Craigjw, Oct 28, 2012.

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  1. Ricknau

    Ricknau Registered

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    There is always the trade off between visual quality and FPS. IMO FPS trumps quality. Frankly I'm satisfied with the quality, give me major FPS improvement! As a triple screen user I fear I may never see a minimum 60 FPS with everything maxed out. Even though I have 2 pretty good video cards (560GTX-448). The more visual quality that's added the less chance I have of achieving my dream. I'd even be willing to buy new cards but I get the feeling the quality crusade will make that a VERY expensive solution, if not impossible.

    The Good--

    For the first time (granted there may have been work done before that was not reported) I see in the latest change log that there is an effort to improve FPS, that is:

    -Enhanced autodetail framerate processing to better maintain minimum FPS

    -Added auto detection of multiGPU setups to improve some processing and support more than 2 GPU

    -Separated auto detail processing from visible vehicles processing

    -Limit auto-detail FPS option to the current refresh rate

    -Added code to visible vehicles calculation to maintain minimum framerate

    -Improved multiGPU awareness of HDR processing


    The Bad--

    1. Yikes! The first published step to improve FPS is to whack polygons when the load gets too high? Really? I'm not a programmer but I was hoping the first swing at improvement would not be with a cleaver! Hell, I can cut back on detail manually.

    2. SLI still is worse than running one card. Maybe the multiGPU lines above are merely in prep for some fixes to come later. I can only hope.


    Am I naive to assume there is some more elegant magic to be worked in the fight for faster FPS? Somebody with knowledge of graphics programming please educate me. It seems to me that if they could improve the ENORMOUS "multiview" FPS hit it would almost completely solve my 3 screen dilemma. That, and really get SLI to make things better rather than worse.

    I also worry that we 3 screen players are in such a minority that our concerns are way down on ISI's list. I must say that if I use only one screen then my graphics performmance is very good. With good single screen performance achieved by the prgammers getting that extra kick for the 10% (WAG) of the population that uses 3 screens may not be that big of a concern for ISI.

    So in summary, (and to keep this on topic) I say quit with the graphics polish already and make it fast!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2012
  2. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    The bloom is too much in your shot. Look at the tyres, they have halo like effects around them. Looks like someone has smeared the screen with vasaline, inside rim of front right wheel. I like what you have done to the track surface, although still slightly too much maybe?Car model and lighting of the car in both shots look dreadfull or very average. This is not good enough even with stuff turned on to make it look better. It looks very average at best.

    How do you get all these options btw?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2012
  3. pay2021

    pay2021 Registered

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    I dont understand why we can have great physics and great graphics, instead that old argument that rfactor concentrate in physics not eye candy. BS!!
     
  4. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    Sometimes I think I am the only one who doesn´t worry about graphics (and sounds!).

    I mean: Immersion is also optic. clear.
    How many laps have you guys done in GP2/3/4 ??
    Wasn´t it breathless thrill (sometimes)?? Wasn´t it great?

    I can´t see why some (especially one) people have a problem with the fact that the graphics in this
    Beta (Alpha/%$§&&) are not (yet) polished for screenshots!!
    And, serious: look at some of this screenshots! GODDAMM!!! This IS NEAR photorealism sometimes!
    And the rest will come for shure!
    Should they polish graphics first and then the physics like pcars/SMS do?? REALLY???
    Hey: why is every build such a difference (more or less) graphics-wise?
    Do you really worry about shaders?? You mean seriously that ISI isn´t able to do some
    good shaders??? Come on!! Think of it!

    Tosch: what is with the shaders at the mysterious build 69?? Do you tried to combine the car shaders of the nissans
    with the enviroment shaders?
    I remember of a few screenshots earlyer where the nissans had completely different shaders as now!
    Whats about it?

    There are only a few things that I wished better (gfx-wise) than rF1 with ENB plugin is:
    -more detail ----> TRUE
    -better textures ----> TRUE (when not ISI than community)
    -better lighting and shadows -----> half TRUE :eek: will be better for shure!
    -something I forgot....

    But one thing that is NOT on my list is POLYCOUNT!!
    Level of detail poly-wise is the most overhyped thing and makes not much sense!
    Do you really see a difference at lets say a complex thing as a F1 car?
    Maybe on a street car, but thats not worth the FPS-drop! (would be interesting to know the polycount of cars from:GT5,pcars,Forza... I bet they are not very high, but well managed!)
    And I agree with some people here: FPS is MOST important especially when you dont have the best CPU
    (influence on realtime physics processing).

    Greets
    Pete
     
  5. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    I would of agreed with the majority of your post months ago, but now it's not good enough, we are seeing no decent models or shaders or whatever. It is 2012 we should have good graphics and good physics. I don't think anyone is saying they want 250.000 high poly models in rF2 but it would be nice to get something that can at least match iRacings latest models like the Mclaren and Lotus 49.

    This physics first thing is boring now, at the start i think that's fair enough and i held that same opinion months ago. But really look back to the start of the beta and honestly nothing has really changed regarding visuals. And once again when are guys gonna realise that the guys who work as ISI physics gurus are not the same guys who do the art for the game. So it does not have to focus on one or the other, both can be done in tandem.

    The fact we get next to no response or any clear cut answers in threads like this is a concern too me at the moment. Yes we have had Tim post and say things are not final and things will improve. But there is no sense of direction of what is happeneing and what they have planned. Yes rF2 can look good sometimes, but it could look miles better. The only photorealistic stuff i have seen in rF2 is some carefully prepared shots of Feels3 tracks.
     
  6. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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    All these options are included in Devmode. You have to make sure that it has hdr enabled, otherwise PostFX menu won't show up. Mat props menu is hidden in the lower left corner (small arrow).

    [​IMG]



    I had this nice reflections with build 68. This build was one day later replaced by build 69. I have a backup of the shader files but they will be replaced by the newer builds when i copy them into the Shaders folder and launch a session.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Thanks Tosch. How do i enable HDR for dev mode btw? Or does it use the same HDR setting as the normal part of the sim as i can't see any postFX option within dev mode? Also how do i go about getting the Brabham or F2 into dev mode?
     
  8. FONismo

    FONismo Registered

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    Not to worry about the last part of that post, worked it out how to get cars in there but still don't know how to enable HDR
     
  9. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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  10. Vinceton

    Vinceton Registered

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    It's not exactly leaps and bounds over rfactor 1.
    Just to refresh your memory, here's Toban raceway, with hudson textures, and hours upon hours of tweaked lighting by me.

    [​IMG]

    There's no long shadows though, simply because rf1 just sucked in that department. Not a massive loss. CG shadows look... well CG.
     
  11. Golly

    Golly Registered

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    I love how some people think that who ever wants eye candy don't want physics as well...:(
    It is 2012, we have some beafy systems now and fully capable computers to run modern games at full graphics.
    People who do not, simply have the choice to turn graphics down.:)
    So with said systems there is no reason to not have a great sim with great graphics and silence the compeditors.

    Everyone wants the best for ISI, but ISI have to also work hard at alot of stuff currently not implemented . So when we are asking for graphic quality to be the best it can be, please do not take it as if we are not hardcore sim racers, that is an insult.
     
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  12. coops

    coops Banned

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    my 2c i for 1 would like to see the graphics more like the real thing than to see everything polished up and not look realistic. eg: grass looks green, not a fake turf look.
     
  13. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    Those shaders (build 68) had no fresnel as far as I remember.
     
  14. Knight of Redemption

    Knight of Redemption Registered

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    It's all part of that magic word immersion, and be assured ISI are reading this thread, I know because I know empirically they were reading another much less...relevant? not quite right but it will do, thread. I don't know what there is to come but we have been told graphics are pretty much last on the list for optimisation, and therein lies the problem. Maybe behind the scenes there are things that we waiting for ready to go but we don't know, so every time there is an update we hope to see something new, when we don't there is disappointment.

    Maybe it needs the performance optimisation to be done first, SLI and Crossfire sorted for those that have it, better use of the later gen graphics cards etc. before they roll out the better eye candy, after all if we got the eye candy but frame rate plummeted...well no use to man nor beast. But that is just a guess, and that is the shame of it...always having to guess.
     
  15. tjc

    tjc Member

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    +1

    Good post :)
     
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  16. Golly

    Golly Registered

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    That would be the true judgement of ISI's metal, the roll out of eye candy (not neccasarily ISI candy, but the coding that drives it all, and the opportunity given to groups to produce awesome stuff with great tools. This is what in my opinion will be the win or fall for ISI in comparison to the latest Sims to come out, let us hope for the win :) Cause if this happens, every Rfactor lover on the planet will salute ISI ! and the platform will go from strength to strength for many years to come just like it's previous one.
     
  17. Nand Gate

    Nand Gate Banned

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    Mostly what you say is just manipulative tripe. Because they didn't "please" you with the way they have decided to approach this completely new software, you make some pedantic childish call like "what if they never ever finish everer?".

    Every single post you make on this forum is just a whinge. If rFactor2 is so badly managed (like you say everywhere around this forum), and is is a "waste of time", why the f%$# do you keep coming here every day to whinge for?

    Your last argument was basically "what if they keep improving the physics for so long and get it so good that they never decide to do graphics ever again?". Stop wasting peoples time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 30, 2012
  18. 3lfk1ng

    3lfk1ng Registered

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    ISI, keep up the hard work. I have gut feeling that you're Sandbagging right now and I greatly look forward to the opening of your floodgates.

    In my personal opinion, as much as I am the proud owner of a very nice computer setup (I can be proud), I care a lot more for the physics of the game than I do the graphics. If I wanted graphics then I would have paid for Project Cars.

    Sure, the graphics do add to the immersion but there is no greater feel than the tires on the road and wheel in my grasp. I love forward to beta and then a final release. Keep it up.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2012
  19. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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    When ISI releases gold i bet that will be in the marked another sim with better physics and graphics that any other racing sim software that exist on market for 39,99 on Steam
     
  20. mclaren777

    mclaren777 Registered

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    You guys are overlooking a major aspect that separates ISI from most other studios – they have an incredibly small staff.

    Yes, pCARS looks far better in many ways, but it has a team of 66 people making it. However, rFactor 2 is made by only 12 people (give or take).

    It's hard to be too critical of them when all of the art assets are made by just a couple people.
     
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