Graphics are Great WTF are people saying rf 1 ?

Spinelli said:
Hmmm lets see

1. iRacing is not even doing close to what rFactor 2 is with regards to lighting

2. rFactor 2 has moving clouds which make a difference to how the lighting shines, and clouds being calculated aswell

3. rFactor 2 has full 24 hr realtime , which affects the sun in game, clouds, lighting, etc and its all calculated in real time

4. rFactor 2 has fully calculated rubber and grip build up graphically and in the physics

5. rFactor 2s rubber and grip build up is all being calculated in real time where ever every single car on track drives/doesnt drive over

6. rFactor 2 has the rubber/grip build up also working in a "drying the track/line" when its wet, its also not pre determined but happening in realtime depending on where every single car including every single a.i. car drives over

7. Probably a bunch of other things I didnt mention



So ya if people can actually think about it ya it doesnt suprise me rFactor 2 is much slower than iRacing, its doing so much more underneath, plus on top of this all as everyone knows its still not optimized and in beta.

Man I remember there were fps improvements for rFactor 1 even after release, let alone while the game was still in beta months before release.
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Still, I don't think the performance hit should be that severe to people with high end cards. Besides, half of the list you mentioned are rather up to the CPU, not the GPU. We know we are still in beta, and there obviously are optimizations to do, so I still don't see performance as a serious isse (although I do think people must manifest about it). The graphics engine, yes.

Rodrigo
 
I read a post of MaXyM in another thread, and it's an excelent talk about the rF2 graphics engine. I'm not a modder, but I do know a little about graphics. I'll re-post it here, I hope he agrees with that:

MaXyM said:
depends on what does 'better' mean. It is not enough to have some additional feature. This feature should also has expected quality. And yes, weather effects looks quite good in rF2. I'm not going to say it is top notch - but satisfying enough.
What is wrong is whole representation of the scene. There are a lot of issues, let's list a few of them:
- lack of real-like reflections (based on Fresnel formula),
- wrong methods of lighting (try to enable headlights during a day),
- wrong interaction between shadows and light sources (try headlights against shadows)
- wrong apporach in shading - there are bunch of specialized shaders instead of a few universal ones, in other words gfx artist has to select shader which should be not his job. Do you think that in real world glass reflects light another way as tree does? No - reflection works always in the same way.

All those things says something about approach/skill of ISI gfx programmer. Those methods has been developed 10 years ago and replaced with new ones on mass marked about 5 years ago. Unfortunately they remain in ISI products. Look at braking lights glow. They are done by 3d object instead of HDR. Look at stop lights behind the car during a day - have you seen some thing in real life? I'm not. it is not only far from reality. But looks like they are move away. Sad.

I'm not saying that to insult anybody, especially ISI stuff. My intention is just to react on your post to show you how far rF2 gfx is from what is called "good graphics". To be honest, today it is 5 years old comparing to recent titles.

Now I expecting immortal argument: "ISI is small company, not as big as EA". I may assure you, it doesn't matter. Of course you may deny it ;)
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And I'll complement his last phrase: Have you already seen the latest screenshots from Assetto Corsa? Now, that is a small company.

Rodrigo
 
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Did the graphics get worse from the videos and screenshots that were released before we got our hands on rF2 beta? I've looked at the pre release vids and screenshots and I don't think so. Maybe I'm wrong?

So I'm not really sure how you can complain saying they aren't good enough for you when you had a unedited look at what you were getting. You were plenty forewarned you were getting a unfinished product and were also advised if you felt uneasy about that that you should wait until gold release at which time there would also be a demo available. :confused:
 
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Spyder said:
I have a similiar build to you, 2500k @4.6 with SLI 580s (although have a 680 installed atm) ... My frames with Max settings at 6050x1080p are between 25 and 50fps, with rfactor they are 170-300fps ... That's some difference! At 1920x1080p I see frames up to 500fps on rf1... I'm guessing you don't have RF1 to compare it with?!
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Okay My GTX570SOC performs as well as most GTX580 1536mb, certainly as good as a Vanilla.
I dont have MAX settings
Level 6, HDR-OFF, FXAA - OFF , SUN-OFF , something else blur is it. ?
24 F1 at Spa Fraps test for 2 minutes off startline gave 45 - 130 - 79 but
I don't really remember seeing much above 100.
I run single 1920 , GTX570 monsters it for mine.
I would love 60fps minimum in everything, sure. :)
Which would be my point for rF you do not need more frames.
All I really worry about these days is lower framerate
I have 300fps in rFactor with lighter mods and standard settings I guess
...but not how I run it usually 32 V8 Supercars and a heavy track, maxxed settings the old girl knows she is workin
Also I never see a blip or stutter, lag since upgrade , not that I did with GTX460 SLi either, very happy. :)
I know SLi has been improved from driver, it did not seem to help much.
Excuse me if the issue is 3 screens because last build is good frames for me.

I don't think even with improved SLi my GTX460SLi would have kept up.

Anyone looking for a good single monitor card and like Nvidia I would watch GTX570 prices.
I wonder how 2 of those Galaxy GTX560 "slims" would go, bit cheaper then my GTX570 SOC
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=19829
 
DurgeDriven said:
Okay My GTX570SOC performs as well as most GTX580 1536mb, certainly as good as a Vanilla.
I dont have MAX settings
Level 6, HDR-OFF, FXAA - OFF , SUN-OFF , something else blur is it. ?
24 F1 at Spa Fraps test for 2 minutes off startline gave 45 - 130 - 79 but
I don't really remember seeing much above 100.
I run single 1920 , GTX570 monsters it for mine.
I would love 60fps minimum in everything, sure. :)
Which would be my point for rF you do not need more frames.
All I really worry about these days is lower framerate
I have 300fps in rFactor with lighter mods and standard settings I guess
...but not how I run it usually 32 V8 Supercars and a heavy track, maxxed settings the old girl knows she is workin
Also I never see a blip or stutter, lag since upgrade , not that I did with GTX460 SLi either, very happy. :)
I know SLi has been improved from driver, it did not seem to help much.
Excuse me if the issue is 3 screens because last build is good frames for me.

I don't think even with improved SLi my GTX460SLi would have kept up.

Anyone looking for a good single monitor card and like Nvidia I would watch GTX570 prices.
I wonder how 2 of those Galaxy GTX560 "slims" would go, bit cheaper then my GTX570 SOC
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=19829
Click to expand...

... You're right, I don't need 300fps in RF2. But given that I can max every other sim I have with triple screens with my 580s or single 680 I'm looking for similiar performance from RF2 , and you shouldn't have to turn anything off with your 570 at your resolution to hit a minimum 60fps! As I've said before I couldn't care less about the graphical quality improving as I think it's okay at the moment, just looking for performance now.
 
Man, I am now so envy with you nVidia guys! :(

Next upgrade project: nVidia! AMD seems to be very slow at pushing/optimizing their driver's performance (even though they have monthly update schedule).
 
Spyder said:
... You're right, I don't need 300fps in RF2. But given that I can max every other sim I have with triple screens with my 580s or single 680 I'm looking for similiar performance from RF2 , and you shouldn't have to turn anything off with your 570 at your resolution to hit a minimum 60fps! As I've said before I couldn't care less about the graphical quality improving as I think it's okay at the moment, just looking for performance now.
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Look at what AA setting he is running. No wonder he gets so low FPS.
I also have GTX570 slightly OC, also 2500k (OC 4.5GHZ). I have everything on MAX, except I have AA Level 3, also 1920x1080. I don't think I've ever seen less than 70 FPS.

You say you can max every other sim? Try pCARS :P
 
thuGG said:
Look at what AA setting he is running. No wonder he gets so low FPS.
I also have GTX570 slightly OC, also 2500k (OC 4.5GHZ). I have everything on MAX, except I have AA Level 3, also 1920x1080. I don't think I've ever seen less than 70 FPS.

You say you can max every other sim? Try pCARS :P
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If you want to be an arse and talk about another sim that is in pre-alpha and as yet un-optimized then fine, I was referring to iracing, Dirt 3 and F12011... I run the Codie's games with 8xmsaa in triple screen at an average of 75fps and minimum of 65fps.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with the rfactor fanboys here, as I've said time and time again I'm just looking for better performance than we currently have, I think we'd all be happy with that.
 
DurgeDriven said:
Okay My GTX570SOC performs as well as most GTX580 1536mb, certainly as good as a Vanilla.
I dont have MAX settings
Level 6, HDR-OFF, FXAA - OFF , SUN-OFF , something else blur is it. ?
24 F1 at Spa Fraps test for 2 minutes off startline gave 45 - 130 - 79 but
Click to expand...

I'm surprised you don't compare fps with 800x600 ;)
without hdr and sun (I don't know if you mean sun occlusion or sun glare?) you missed half a pleasure. Enable it to get better experience. But fps will drop significantly.
 
MaXyM said:
I'm surprised you don't compare fps with 800x600 ;)
without hdr and sun (I don't know if you mean sun occlusion or sun glare?) you missed half a pleasure. Enable it to get better experience. But fps will drop significantly.
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I have never been keen on HDR, bloom, blur, etc. and the sun hurts my eyes as sunny pCARS circuit do.
I have to run it cloudy.

GTA4 I did not like ENB , not because of framerate just does not appeal to me.

No HDR looks less natural but I like the sharper definition, extra framerate don't hurt either.

I did not get that much of a hit from Level 4 > Level 6 so I kept it not that it has improved anything I can see.
 
DurgeDriven said:
I have never been keen on HDR, bloom, blur, etc. and the sun hurts my eyes as sunny pCARS circuit do.
I have to run it cloudy.

GTA4 I did not like ENB , not because of framerate just does not appeal to me.

No HDR looks less natural but I like the sharper definition, extra framerate don't hurt either.

I did not get that much of a hit from Level 4 > Level 6 so I kept it not that it has improved anything I can see.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with you about enb, I tried it with skyrim too but ended up replacing it with the RCRN mod. However I think RF2s HDR is okay, a little washed out at the mo but its too much of an fps killer for me to use at the moment.
 
Sean_S36 said:
Has anyone actually got a system to run these graphics on full at Malaysia at 10AM Simply Stunning imho,

Are the ones comparing with rf1 have a high end system that runs full graphics?

Yes the default cars aren't so shiny but that's not graphics engine that is showing potential to modelers to show their great work.

Mill for graphics in the morning Beautiful, And all this as a Beta and many things graphic unimplemented yet but almost ready to go Wow this is exciting.

The track graphics and graphics engine seems to me to have the potential to be as good as C.a.r.s in the future.

Rfactor 2 is Way ahead of rFactor in this early beta stage so , you peeps comparing it as the same either have a inferior system or you are delusional or trolling.:cool:
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I don't have a top-system but rf2 definitly looks better than rf1. Luc's new texture-style is a hugh step forward in track-texturing.
Realtime-reflections, realtime shadows and specially the realtime fast-line build up are the other clear visible features beside the sun-flare and the HDR effect and the Cloud-to-lightning effect.

Uhm,... :rolleyes: This game is carrying a big bag of candy.
 
DurgeDriven said:
No HDR looks less natural but I like the sharper definition
Click to expand...
Don't look at other games. Many of them still abuse HDR to get tons of bloom. HDR has nothing to do with bloom actually.

Usually, whenever you turn on HDR in game, a lot of bloom appears aswell. This is why many gamers think of HDR as of some bloom effect.

The true power of HDR is the ability to render scene using real life intensity of lighting (high range) and then put that on screen using tone mapping (dynamic range).
Some extra features you get are also realistic reflections and blending.

Personally I can't imagine realtime graphics without HDR nowadays. You can get some good results without HDR but never good enough.
And HDR itself doesn't spoil anything - it's the bloom that need to get out of the way, not HDR. Bloom is good for strong light sources and strong reflections, but it shouldn't be used to make objects glow when they get only a bit brighter than surroundings.

I like rF2's HDR - you will not find any excessive bloom here :) Although since build 60 HDR is not working properly, but it will be fixed for sure. Then it will be all about scene lighting being set properly.
 
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Spinelli said:
U better delete that post and link RIGHT NOW, according to some people in this forum rFactor 2 looks no better than rFactor 1, so that picture must be fake!! LOLOL
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LoL
The people that say that must run with all the new features disabled. I havent tried turning everything off, but im pretty sure without hdr and realtime reflections rf2 would look a lot like rf1.
I even remember 1 guy saying gpl looks better LOL.
 
feels3 said:
You don't appreciate the power of HDR.
It's very powerful tool. :)

This is my shot from Croft with my experimental HDR settings.
Without HDR it looks only a bit better than rf1.

Shot is from early morning.

http://feels3.strefa.pl/sim/srpl/croft/pblc/isi/GRAB_497.JPG
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It's a nice shot full of atmosphere and environmental detail. One thing that stands out to me is the sky though, it looks a bit oil painting for want of a better word. Hope that makes sense. The right side inpaticular where it has the yellow
 
Yes I know that it still needs improvements. I'm working on this.
This is only my experiment with HDR.
I'm newbie in lighting so I need a while to learn how everything should work.
 
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