Grand Prix 1937

Discussion in 'Car Modding' started by LeStrat, Apr 21, 2016.

  1. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Member

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    Some more data.

    Mercedes W125

    @5,800rpm
    Gear ratios: 8.0 - 5.15 - 4.45 - 3.52

    Circuit - 1st gear - 2nd gear - 3rd gear - 4th gear
    Monza - 73 mph - 114mph - 132 mph - 166 mph

    @5,800rpm
    Gear ratios: 9.55 - 6.15 - 5.95 - 4.7

    Circuit - 1st gear - 2nd gear - 3rd gear - 4th gear
    Monaco - 60 mph - 93.5mph - 96 mph - 122 mph
     
  2. Mauro

    Mauro Registered

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    about this golden era on web you can find also a not bad rF2 conversion of Bremgarten track (1935-1954)

     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2017
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  3. Sam Smith

    Sam Smith Registered

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    I see the odd head movement has been included in the v0.1.
    Could you include in the upgrades section of the vehicle the option to remove the head movement like they did in the original mod with the static cams add on.
    Ive added the file Im talking about below :)
     

    Attached Files:

  4. 2ndLastJedi

    2ndLastJedi Registered

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    Sam , is this a fix for the way the helmet cam/ cockpit cam floats around and even gets letf behind ? If so , how can i add this to my version ?


    Thank You to all the people involved in bringing these great cars to rF2 .
     
  5. NickDeFender

    NickDeFender Registered

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    I hate to burst your bubble guys but I'm pretty sure most or all of those models were made by Bob "Punko 353" Russell. He did the 1967 Gurney Eagle tribute, Grand Slam, 1955 F1 and the 1937 mod. He basically was the impetus for Team Players. Having dealt with him a little bit, he's kind of a perfectionist. From my reading of this:
    http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1928797
    I think he'd be disinclined to allow the use of his models. You could try I guess. By the way it only took 30 seconds to track Punko down.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  6. Mauro

    Mauro Registered

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    Bob (Punko353) Russell is in the Team Players 1955 mod credits.

    1937 mod is by Team Vintage and these are credits:
    Team Vintage components:
    Big Ben......3D mesh and Paint jobs
    Osella.......Physics
    Ozpata.......Researcher, Beta tester, paint jobs
    Wolferl......Motor sounds
    Wolfattack...Research, Beta tester


    All of this components have given their permission for this project.....
     
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  7. Yarach

    Yarach Registered

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    Hi everyone. I came across this mod: http://shop.sim-dream.com/downloads/assetto-corsa-mod-grandprix-1937/ And ofcourse I fell for it and bought it. After reading online about the creators I found out that something is not right here. I have claimed my money back and currently am fighting for it. The last claim Sim Dream made is: "Our artists worked together with the Team Vintage on this mod for rFactor and we have all the rights to make it work in Assetto Cora. The mod had been much improved since then. You've payed for the digital downlaod and you've received it, I can't see the point of opening a dispute here. If you will not clsoe the dispute we'll have to escalate it to Paypal." Can someome confirm this being true or false?
     
  8. ozpata

    ozpata Registered

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    well it is a pity that these people are doing this, don't recall ever working with anybody else outside team Vintage, not contact from anybody trying to do this but I have seen they have done it with other mods
    it just doesn't seem right
     
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  9. ozpata

    ozpata Registered

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    well I am going to burst your bubble,
    the only model that was sort of advanced while Big Ben was still on Team Players was the AU as the Brooklands track and I think he was working on a early 1900 Mercedes, by then the Gurney was basically done and it was clear that BBen wasn't gonna stay around for much longer, so he left and started Team Vintage, I was there from the beginning and while Team Players was still active, was on both teams, something that I have discussed with Bob so it won't cause any issues and he was fine with it, Bob did some work in the beginning but as Ben was getting ready to go, Bob was fine with taking some of the stuff and we did a lot of re organizing the information and basically went over everything and added a lot.

    so we started discussions of the cars and material to make the mod, the Mercedes for the mod, was sort of a rough shape at the time

    Bob and Bristow along with the rest, were basically concentrating on the 1955 mod, which was very well advanced by then, and starting to do some models on a possible 67 mod, at least I remember seeing the model of a Ferrari 312 and a Honda I think, most of that material I lost years ago, except for the mod, the Ferrari 67 was there for sure, at the time we were basically honing the cars of the 55 mod and nothing else, the 37 and early was always a thing that Big Ben was doing

    and yes Bob was a perfectionist and at some point he lost interest, moved on to other things, last time I spoke with him he wasn't doing anything related to rfactor or modding, but saying as I have read somewhere that BBen stole the models is not correct and if you ask Bob he will confirm that and I personally was in contact with him during the time in which we were working on the 55 mod and BBen was moving to the new project, I didn't want any conflicts, and asked a few questions about everything related to the issue, but by then it was also clear that TP wasn't gonna be around for much longer, even after he closed the Team Players forum, to the public at least, Bob allowed me a couple of times to get in there to look for some stuff that I have lost in a drive crash

    and both of them knew I was on both places and both had no issues and never heard any complaining about stolen models or anything from any
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
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  10. ozpata

    ozpata Registered

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    Mercedes W125
    Wheelbase:
    9ft 2 in Front track: 4 ft 10 in Rear Track: 4 ft 7 in
    Height: 41 in. to scuddle Height: 47 1/2 in to drivers head
    Frontal area: 12 1/2 sq.ft

    Maximum Speed: 200 mph with largest gear and largest tire
    1st:73 mph 2nd: 114 mph 3rd: 132 mph 4th: 166 mph at 5,800 rpm
    Gear Ratios: 3.53, 4.45, 5.15, 8.0
    Differential: ZF
    Bore / Stroke: 94 mm x 102 mm Piston area: 86 sq. in.
    Cylinders: 8 Capacity: 5.600cc BHP: 646 at 5,800 rpm
    Valves: 4 per cylinder angled at 60 degrees
    Valve area inlet/ outlet: 29.6 sq.in.
    Carburetors: 1 Mercedes Benz w/ triple choke Fuel: 86% Methyl/Alcohol
    Supercharger: 1 Roots type at 2.78 engine speed Pressure: 12 lb. boost
    Ignition: 1 magneto Bosch Spark Plugs: 8 located on center of head

    Suspension Front: independent wishbones with springs
    Suspension Rear: De Dion type with torsion bar springs
    Dampers: Hydraulic
    Brakes:Lockheed Hydraulic
    Brake Drums : 15 3/4 in. diameter 2 3/16 in. width in front 3 in. rear

    Steering: worm and nut 2 1/4 turns lock to lock
    Tyres: 5.25 by 17 Continental Front
    7 by 19 Continental Rear, 7 x 22 and 7 x 24 optional

    other information that might be useful
    the AU car was basically 4 to 5% faster than the Alfa Romeo during the 37 season

    the Mercedes was most of the time 2 miles per hour faster than the AU in every circuit

    the ERA C type was about 6 mph slower than the Alfa Romeo

    Mercedes was stronger than AU in 1936 but the roles reversed in 1937, even though that the Mercedes was a little bit faster and seemed to have a better handling, the weight distribution played a big factor and Mercedes was eating tires at a higher rate than the AU, lets be clear, both were tire destroyers but the AU seemed to have a slightly more neutral handling trough out the fuel consumption and a bit more road holding or better road holding, to keep the speed up the Mercedes would eat through tires at an alarming rate.

    Tyres
    this is a comparison of tyre life and is relation to average speeds done at the Nurburgring

    average speed 72 1/2 mph tyre mileage 620
    average speed 75 mph tyre mileage 360
    average speed 77 1/2 mph tyre mileage 220
    average speed 80 mph tyre mileage 175

    Continental Pressures: 60 lbs on tracks 50 lbs on road circuits
    Maximum tyre temperature: 85 C the four tyres weighted 158 lbs

    Rear wheel and tyre : 60 lbs each with drum brake assembly 80 lbs


    Suspension travel:
    Mercedes:
    front wheels 3 inches rear wheels 4 1/2 inches to full bump stop

    most of the others have a travel average of 2 inches

    Differentials:
    ZF :
    used by Mercedes and Auto Union

    on sharp corners 50 % of input power is absorbed on the friction setup by the ZF, helping in making difficult on spinning the wheels, it was helpful given the power to weight ratio,so excessive wheelspin and loss of control could be avoided by the most gentle touch of the throttle

    At the rear the De Dion was divided to permit turning of each half, from the outside it looks like a three piece axle but in fact is more complex, the center piece includes an oscillating piece.

    Each wheel was connected by a lever of 6 ½ inches of length to a torsion bar of 18 mm of diameter and 22 ½ in. long, these torsion bars were splined at each end and mounted outside the frame, the normal movement was of 3 ½ in. to full bump

    Front suspension wishbones were of unequal length, top one measuring 10 in. and bottom one 11.8 in. providing a total movement of 5 ¾ in. with 3 in. being the normal movement to full bump stop

    Lowest final ratio 4.70:1, the normal ratio was 3.53:1 and the highest possible gear 3.28:1
    The normal tyre size was at the rear 7.00 by 22 with an effective diameter of 36 in. with the possibilities of using 7 by 19 33.4 in in diameter and 7 by 24 with 38 in. giving 200 mph at 5800 rpm and with the smaller sizes getting 178 mph to 188
     
  11. PLAYLIFE

    PLAYLIFE Member

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    Ozpata, thanks for the response and putting the record straight.

    Nothing more infuriating than misinformation and people posing on a moral high horse. I guess when one is dis-proportionally defensive i.e. NickDeFender, it tends to suggest that there's underlying untruths.

    Ozpata, great info. I have an extensive library of pre-WWII motoring books so if you ever are after anything specific, drop me a line, I may be able to help.
     
  12. ozpata

    ozpata Registered

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    information on the Auto Union
    the C type delivered 520 bhp at 500 rpm , Auto Union claimed to have reached 205 mph with the car , but on record only shows that the car rarely will go over 195 mph, and that speed will be achieved with the gearing and Tyre size for Avus or Tripoli.

    The car was generally geared towards acceleration , so about 175 was the more common speed at 5000 rpm.

    the tyres lasted about 150 miles so fuel consumption was tried to be kept on sink with that, the consumption was about 3 1/2 mpg, the fuel was held on a tank with a capacity of 50 gallons, giving a weight of 400 lbs, placing of the tank was calculated so the variation of load over the rear axle was almost nothing, with a normal tank rearwards mounted the change will be from 58 down to 51%, with a center positioning the fall will be of about 2%
    tyres : Continental 5.25 x17 front
    7 x 19 rear or 7 x 22 optional
    drive through the rear wheels was through ZF diff, limited slip

    tank: 2 sizes 40 and 46 gallons, placed between driver and engine, the weight distribution was unaffected by the usage of fuel, the 58% was for the cars with a rear mounted gas tank

    6 litre engine power to weight ratio 1.08 lb per bhp

    engine 540 lb
    accesories 258 lb
    frame 135 lb
    wheels 70 lb
    Steering 35 lb
    rear axle 258 lb
    tyres 158 lb
    body 76 lb
    water 65 lb
    oil 70 lb
    fuel 410 lb
    gearbox 82 lb
    springs 23 1/2 lb
    driver 175 lb
    total weight 2,508 lb

    track : front 4 ft 8 in rear 4 ft 8 in
    wheelbase: 9 ft 6 1/2 in
    height to drivers head 42 in
    frontal area 10.8 sq ft
    max speed 175 mph at 5000 rpm on fifth speed w/ 10:33 bevels and 7.0x 19 in tyres

    75 mph on first

    bore / stroke 75 x 85 mm
    piston area 109.5 sq in
    valves 2 per cyl at 90 degrees inlet 23.7 sq in
    outlet 20 sq in
    manifold pressure 13 lb

    gear ratios 2.84, 3.19, 3.22, 4.25, 6.6 / 10:33 bevels 10:30 optional

    weight distribution about 57 % on rear

    the tale of the car moved a lot and the driver wasn't always aware of the amount of movement, basically the tale was always in some sort of angle .
    Varzi and Stuck could drive it but only Rosemeyer really mastered and was confident on corners.
    monaco 36 lap speed 56.01 mph
    eifel races 36 74.46 mph
    German gp 85.52 mph avg speed 81.8
    coppa Acerbo 89.04 mph avg speed 86.48
    Spa 107.7 mph avg speed 104.87

     
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  13. Fuzzmutt

    Fuzzmutt Registered

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    Hey, first of all many thanks for bringing this to rf2, despite this being a very early version Im having loads of fun with it, one thing I've found is that recently theres been an update for the dx11 build that seemed to have broken the Auto Union's windshield, looks like a fighter plane display now.
    20170518182643_1.jpg

    Not game breaking but definetly not nice to look at. Keep up the great work, looking forward to updates and eventually a full version
     
  14. djfil007

    djfil007 Registered

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    Glad to hear this is being fully converted for rF2. This is one of the 3 mods (other two are WCORR v3 and DirtWorks) that I keep rF1 installed for, but would be happy to have it all under rFactor 2 instead.
     

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