[REL] Gingerman Raceway by James Mabe On Sale Now!

Discussion in 'Locations' started by cyruscloud, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. GTClub_wajdi

    GTClub_wajdi Registered

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    I have the same FFB issues in my G27. I hope you can make some smoothing work on the road surface.
     
  2. cyruscloud

    cyruscloud Registered

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    OK, now to address the force feedback issues. First of all personally I don't typically use a wheel, my workstation is covered with mice, monitors and a digital art tablet I really don't have room for one. Whatever you are experiencing is definitely on the force feedback end only as the actual physics of the car barely notices any roughness to the road.

    Essentially the road is working like this, the old road is one terrain setting and the new part is another. All of it was modeled with physical bumps so considering it is differing on parts of the track the physical model of the road itself isn't the problem. There are cracks and sealer patches on the old areas of the road that can be felt to some degree but its not much and they are spaced so you would only feel anything when hitting one so it wouldn't create a constant chatter. That leaves those terrain values, which you can see below.

    This is for the old road

    // Bumpy road 1 //Bumps for Cracked Surface
    [FEEDBACK]
    Wear=1.00 Dry=0.98 Wet=0.81 Roughness=(0.50,0.3) Resistance=0.0 BumpAmp=0.007 BumpWavelen=0.3 Legal=true Spring=0.0 Damper=0.0 CollFrict=0.4 Sparks=1 Scraping=1 Sound=dry
    Reaction=tiresmoke Tex=SMOKETire.tga Max=1024 Scale=(0.5,0.5,0.5) Growth=(2.5,2.0,2.0) ASDEnvelope=(0.1,0.7,3.8) Suspension=0.98 DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
    Reaction=skid Tex=skidhard.tga Max=2500 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
    Reaction=wetskid Tex=skidwet.tga Max=1024 Duration=0.40 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=One SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
    Reaction=spray Tex=rainspray.tga Max=1024 Scale=(1.3,0.02,0.02) Growth=(2.0,0.19,0.19) GrowthVel=(0.17,0.13,0.13) Power=0.41 RampSpeed=90.0 OffsetVel=0.10 ASDEnvelope=(0.01,3.0,2.0) DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
    Materials=road

    This is the new section

    // New Asphalt
    [FEEDBACK]
    Wear=1.05 Dry=1.01 Wet=0.89 Roughness=(0.52,0.30) Resistance=0.0 BumpAmp=0.001 BumpWavelen=3.0 Legal=true Spring=0.0 Damper=0.0 CollFrict=0.4 Sparks=1 Scraping=1 Sink=-0.004 Sound=dry
    Reaction=tiresmoke Tex=SMOKETire.tga Max=1024 Scale=(0.5,0.5,0.5) Growth=(2.5,2.0,2.0) ASDEnvelope=(0.1,0.7,3.8) Suspension=0.98 DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
    Reaction=skid Tex=skidhard.tga Max=2500 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
    Reaction=wetskid Tex=skidwet.tga Max=1024 Duration=0.40 Pixel=NoReduceDetail Particle=Plane+Deformable+SingleSided DestBlend=One SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
    Reaction=spray Tex=rainspray.tga Max=1024 Scale=(1.3,0.02,0.02) Growth=(2.0,0.19,0.19) GrowthVel=(0.17,0.13,0.13) Power=0.41 RampSpeed=90.0 OffsetVel=0.10 ASDEnvelope=(0.01,3.0,2.0) DestBlend=InvSrcAlpha SrcBlend=SrcAlpha
    Materials=asph

    These are are actually values pulled from Mores, so anything you are feeling on this track you should likely feel at least in places at Mores too. The key differences I can see are here

    Roughness=(0.52,0.30) compared to Roughness=(0.50,0.3) on the old road
    BumpAmp=0.001 BumpWavelen=3.0 to BumpAmp=0.007 BumpWavelen=0.3 on the old road

    My guess is the bumpamp and bumpwavelen are the cause since this is creating stronger bumps and more frequently than the other road type. However if this is making the force feedback of the wheel go crazy when ultimately it barely affects the actual physics of the car then that is limiting what track creators can do with terrain feel quite a bit and I have to wonder what an actual brick or cobblestone road would do to the force feedback. I am ok with addressing it somehow but I need to be pretty clear on how to address it and as others said not lose the dynamics of the road.
     
  3. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    That sounds very reasonable, cyruscloud
     
  4. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    The old asphalt looks like it has a shorter and higher wave.... I can just see the graphs in my head on how it might look. Let's say the Amp was the same but the shorter it was the rougher it feels as the peaks and troughs are closer together?
     
  5. Hazi

    Hazi Registered

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    Just search the forum for " BumpWavelen" there are allready few posts about that and also for RF1 - might help
     
  6. Woodee

    Woodee Registered

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    If only there was a way to visualise it!
     
  7. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    Oh dear... I get the same chatter in the Skip Barber on Mores. You're right.
    Damn. Maybe my settings are just messed up? Or the wheel is somehow messed up. Damn.
     
  8. sg333

    sg333 Registered

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    I just want to reiterate how awesome the track feels on a CSW ;)
     
  9. PRC Steve

    PRC Steve Registered

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    Feels pretty damn good here too..... Hex ;-)
     
  10. Justy

    Justy Registered

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    Hmm, I just tried comparing Mores and Gingerman back to back. The experience is not the same for me. I do feel occasional chatter at Mores, but this is only when I drive over the really worn patches on the track (see pics). I don't mean the big square patches where it's been repaved, or the normal racing surface, but small defects where it looks and feels, for all intents and purposes, like the actual surface has worn away completely and needs repaving, so it feels quite natural and is something I've never really noticed before now. But its the whole track surface at Gingerman, that feels like those really worn patches do at Mores (except for the final 2 corners of the full layout). Is Gingerman Raceway really in that condition?

    I'm wondering, looking at the track surface stuff you have posted above, if the "cracked surface" is referring to these excessively worn patches at Mores and would probably not reflect the condition of an entire track surface, but is used more to add some variety to the track surface. I'm no track modder, so I don't know for sure, this is just speculation on my part. But for what it's worth, I hope it's of some help.

    View attachment 14811

    View attachment 14812
     
  11. Tosch

    Tosch Registered

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    We had the same trouble with Nordschleife. I believe you are looking in the right direction.
    Here are the settings we used to fix the issue.

     
  12. Marc Collins

    Marc Collins Registered

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    Beat me to it Tosch. I was just about to say the same issue occurred with the "cracked surface" in Nords. Hopefully the same fix will cure it!
     
  13. sg333

    sg333 Registered

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    Might be a bug, but the control tower seems to flash when you see it from a distance, like textures or something flashing. Possibly not related to the track but thought i'd mention it.
     
  14. rhamm

    rhamm Registered

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    Autobahn was one of my favorite tracks in rFactor so this was a no brainer buy for me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 11, 2014
  15. cyruscloud

    cyruscloud Registered

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    I get this a little bit myself and at other tracks too, I think it is more prominent with some videocard/driver combos and possibly certain cars/cameras being viewed from.
     
  16. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    For $5 for a track (multiple configs) I sure hope the physics of the track are as top-knotch and super high resolution and complex as you can make them without laser-scanning...

    1. I hope there are a ton of different grip attributes to every single different type of surface (different pavements, different curbs, etc.). Also, these grip values should change relative to one-another in the wet (for eg. certain curbs and especially all painted lines should become much more slippery, relative to the "regular" part of the track, when wet).

    2. I hope the bumps and overall undulation modelling is very complex and high resolution (eg. even a smooth straight without bumps should still not be perfectly smooth like a laser-beam; even a smooth section of road/track should still have all sorts of subtle differences in undulations/elevations, unevenness, etc. even if we still wouldn't actually consider that peice of road "bumpy").

    3. I hope all of that unevenness, and all of those ridges, dents, cracks, and general imperfections in the road are actually modelled physically not just graphically (and, graphically speaking, they do look beautifully detailed/modelled :) ).

    4. I hope that every single imperfection of any surface (including tiny little ridges, shapes, and details on curbs and such) or just subtle little purposely designed shapes (like those tiny rectangles built into some of the curbs) are all actually modelled physically and not just graphically.


    If all those high-quality physics (not graphics) standards are met, then I will definitely consider purchasing this track. Can anyone confirm that all that super detailed and meticulous physics modelling has been applied to this track?...
     
  17. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    You can not find all of those things in 50$ tracks Spinelli ;)
     
  18. hexagramme

    hexagramme Registered

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    This. :D
     
  19. YoLolo69

    YoLolo69 Registered

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    What you described Spinelli is top-notch, more than perfect, and it's called: real life ;) I never felt such result at such level. Sure we are sometimes near this quality level, but I don't think this is reachable. Even ISI top quality tracks cannot be described so perfectly and reach such perfection. They are really good (E.g. we can feel white paint made for starting positions of cars at Silverstone), but not the level you describe. Even laser scanned track have to be interpreted and lowered to match software constraints.

    Saying that, I'm waiting to see if the track surfaces will be modified due to the rattle problem some meet with this new tracks surface. The North Ring had the issue (I was one of the first to report it) and Tosch and DJC was able finally to fix it for good, avoiding me to add smooth factor for my T500RS in control menu just for the Ring.

    In any case, according reports here, that's the only point which prevent me for buying now, all other reports are pretty good so will be OK for me. Seems to be a good quality track for sure, I'm glad we have talented people who have skills, time and desire to propose such work.
     
  20. WiZPER

    WiZPER Registered

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    I have a feeling that Spinelli might be just a tad ironic, he usually doesn't repeat himself this much :)
     

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