Gave up beta. Waiting for the final release.

Tim Wheatley said:
I might call it Marc from now on.

No, I'm not ready to market it yet. Because it isn't ready for me to do that yet. Which is why I'm not, yet. I've not said anything different that isn't equally correct, and anything that is contradictory in my eyes. I've been saying that I'm not marketing it... What do you think that means? It's like you need me to come over and draw you a picture.

You might not be trying to talk about Gold, but you have been. You replied to me when I was, because the thread was, and you keep mentioning it (although you did change the name of it to v1.0 to point out how you weren't talking about it). I'll say once more, gold would be when a product goes on DVD. If you don't care about gold, stop putting a line in the sand for the product to cross so you can consider it gold/v1.0.

Everyone has a different line in the sand. When rF2 reaches mine, I'll start marketing the product.
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avoided the scenario well done, call it Marc if you like I dont give a rats bottom! fact still remains if I was a new customer and bought this sim now and was told its been released i'd be mightily disappointed in the glaring bugs....but your failing to acknowledge that are'nt you Timothy?!

Going back to the Gold argument then, are you ready for future threads asking the same thing? because guess what....you're gonna have loads more to deal with, you're gonna repeating yourself a whole lot more over the coming months/year so good luck with that!
 
MarcG said:
Right its been released, scenario:

User buys a yearly subscription to a game thats released
Downloads the game & content and installs
Tries the 1960s at Monaco "WTF no mirrors, ok will have to drive with Virtual Mirrors"....brum brum up the hill "hmmm....missing building....I'm gonna load up the Clios thisgame seems not finished"
Qualifies mid pack and goes to race "Whys my sound all distorted and that!?"
Tries the Meganes "ahh this is better, eveythings fine.....gets to dusk "yeah cant see **** through my windscreen...uuummmm"

Catch my drift? as a paying customer would YOU be happy with that? would YOU call it "beta"?!?!


FYI I'm talking about the Released state, nothing to do with the term Gold.

In Bold, that sentence right there says to me that this game is not ready yet, see "updated old content and such" from above. Seems like you're contradicting the company...the games released but you're not ready to market it yet...so in actual fact you're saying its not Ready yet :p
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I would answere this with "ongoing development"

So now that this is clear for anyone, Jux can decide what to do and everyone can get back behind the steering wheel.
 
Muxi-Mux said:
No worries Tim, my statement wasn't meant so bad.

But please try to understand from the customer view. We have to struggle since 15 Month with a rain-feature which don't have spray or raindrops on the windshield, just for example. There are bugs on some Content which aren't fixed since release. And it isn't so that we get so many new content instead of this.
You tell us you licence this great thing here and this there, but when i see how rarely we get new tracks or cars or content updates from ISI i wonder when all these things will come?
And as long as the assortment of ISI-Content isn't so lush, the patience of some users or me isn't that big.

That's why i made this cheeky remark, previously.
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I understand, it's just an irked issue. They're not standing around drinking coffee.

You've had to struggle since January really, as until then there was the all-encompassing "beta" label slapped everywhere, but I concede that there's things not been fixed, and that's the parts of Marcs posts I understand. We just had to do things how we did for the product. You can't always follow who has the loudest voice and make sure they're happy, for the best, both short and long term, we have had to do things how we have.

Hm, I don't really feel content has been coming that slowly lately... Maybe just not content that appeals to you? The pace of development on content is pretty good when you compare with some of our competition who release content in an ongoing dev basis. What kind of pace are you looking for with content? As that's probably not going to change massively.
 
Cmon Marc. You get a product right now. Its not completed but you get an guaranted ongoing service with updates and stuff.

Thats what you bought. And to me as a customer its great and lot better than getting bugged f1 franchises year after year for 50bucks per game...
 
MarcG said:
avoided the scenario well done, call it Marc if you like I dont give a rats bottom! fact still remains if I was a new customer and bought this sim now and was told its been released i'd be mightily disappointed in the glaring bugs....but your failing to acknowledge that are'nt you Timothy?!

Going back to the Gold argument then, are you ready for future threads asking the same thing? because guess what....you're gonna have loads more to deal with, you're gonna repeating yourself a whole lot more over the coming months/year so good luck with that!
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Which is why it isn't advertised yet. Does the word "released" really mean that much to you? Then again, please define it first and I think then this problem will fade.

To me this seems like a personal dispute instead of constructive crticism. What would you like to see it called now and what would it change to the "new customer" scenario?
 
I`m so glad i got a lifetime..... monthly updates and get to enjoy the forum soap opera.... brb need more popcorn
 
MarcG said:
avoided the scenario well done, call it Marc if you like I dont give a rats bottom! fact still remains if I was a new customer and bought this sim now and was told its been released i'd be mightily disappointed in the glaring bugs....but your failing to acknowledge that are'nt you Timothy?!

Going back to the Gold argument then, are you ready for future threads asking the same thing? because guess what....you're gonna have loads more to deal with, you're gonna repeating yourself a whole lot more over the coming months/year so good luck with that!
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Except where I acknowledged it, yes. What are the exact words you need me to say for you to be satisfied so that you can feel how you obviously need to feel? I gave a confirmation of the issues with the components, I mentioned they were being tested and that they would fix the issues. I mentioned that I'm not marketing it, because I don't feel it's ready. Can you tell me where I didn't acknowledge again?

Back to the argument you don't care about, and weren't arguing? Got it. Thanks for the well wishes, but as I said previously when I acknowledged the issues, we're currently testing components to fix the issues you highlighted. I think I can cope in the meantime.
 
for example I remember when corvette came out, I think it was Tim that said this (not this words exactly): "do not feel too comfortable about it (the car handling) because an update is coming. " until today.
 
Tim Wheatley said:
Except where I acknowledged it, yes. What are the exact words you need me to say for you to be satisfied so that you can feel how you obviously need to feel? I gave a confirmation of the issues with the components, I mentioned they were being tested and that they would fix the issues. I mentioned that I'm not marketing it, because I don't feel it's ready. Can you tell me where I didn't acknowledge again?

Back to the argument you don't care about, and weren't arguing? Got it. Thanks for the well wishes, but as I said previously when I acknowledged the issues, we're currently testing components to fix the issues you highlighted. I think I can cope in the meantime.
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I get the feeling it is just the long way of saying "I want it done and i want it done NOW!"...
 
Flaux said:
Cmon Marc. You get a product right now. Its not completed but you get an guaranted ongoing service with updates and stuff.

Thats what you bought. And to me as a customer its great and lot better than getting bugged f1 franchises year after year for 50bucks per game...
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You're confusing me with someone else, *I* am happy with what I paid for, I understood the Beta process, I understand it will never get to Gold because its an ongoing development, I love that from ISI, I'm happy with content.
I was portraying the viewpoint of a New Customer in my posts, look at my scenario above, would YOU be happy if you bought another game like that without and previous knowledge of the title?
We've been blessed with these forums and the regulars will know whats going on, nut not every paying customer will come here and ready every single one of Tims posts to understand the title fully, hence you have to be prepared for that and thats why I was arguing that IN MY OPINION this game is not at a released state YET.




Tim Wheatley said:
I understand, it's just an irked issue. They're not standing around drinking coffee.

You've had to struggle since January really, as until then there was the all-encompassing "beta" label slapped everywhere, but I concede that there's things not been fixed, and that's the parts of Marcs posts I understand. We just had to do things how we did for the product. You can't always follow who has the loudest voice and make sure they're happy, for the best, both short and long term, we have had to do things how we have.

Hm, I don't really feel content has been coming that slowly lately... Maybe just not content that appeals to you? The pace of development on content is pretty good when you compare with some of our competition who release content in an ongoing dev basis. What kind of pace are you looking for with content? As that's probably not going to change massively.
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Why could'nt you say that earlier then?! THAT'S exactly what I was getting at...crikey we DO agree one something :P
 
MarcG said:
Why could'nt you say that earlier then?! THAT'S exactly what I was getting at...crikey we DO agree one something :P
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I've been saying that. I've said it multiple times in this thread where I mentioned the components, and them currently being tested. I've said that I'm not marketing it, and why... I've been banging my head against the wall saying it. If you have time, please go back and read my posts with this in-mind.
 
the build 156 updates the corvette physics? sorry but I thought the update was about the corvette since it was on the corvette thread. anyway I didn't notice any difference while driving it.
 
Tim Wheatley said:
Except where I acknowledged it, yes. What are the exact words you need me to say for you to be satisfied so that you can feel how you obviously need to feel? I gave a confirmation of the issues with the components, I mentioned they were being tested and that they would fix the issues. I mentioned that I'm not marketing it, because I don't feel it's ready. Can you tell me where I didn't acknowledge again?

Back to the argument you don't care about, and weren't arguing? Got it. Thanks for the well wishes, but as I said previously when I acknowledged the issues, we're currently testing components to fix the issues you highlighted. I think I can cope in the meantime.
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yes yes I know that as above *I* understand everything but NEW customers WONT thats the point....they see a RELEASED game with BROKEN components....do you understand that? will THEY call it ready and released!?!?! NO they'd think it was a BETA because thats what gamers do and THATS what you're getting now with people asking "when is gold?"...not just on this forum either I can tell ya!

finally to end with as I've nearly finished my shift:

IN MY OPINION this game is not in a Released State yet because of the glaring bugs in the components (Clio/Megane etc).
ISI say it has been since January and I think thats a mistake and not the way *I* would've done it personally, but there ya go!
I've received a PM from a well know mod team member who informs me Build 156 gave his team the "green light" which for me is good news, why they could'nt of gotten there sooner I dont know.

I *LOVE* this Sim, ISI in general since 2005 when I first bought rFactor, but there are some things with RF2 and the way its been handled that have left me bewildered, confused and dumbstruck since Day One...I wont list them all dont worry.
 
Tire model changed between 134 (build when C6.R was released I think) and 156 to be able to use some of the features in the C6.R tire model.
 
@marc: it's all good then. And new customers should get into it before they buy something. If they don't, well... then they need to live with their decisions
 
Tim Wheatley said:
Hm, I don't really feel content has been coming that slowly lately... Maybe just not content that appeals to you? The pace of development on content is pretty good when you compare with some of our competition who release content in an ongoing dev basis. What kind of pace are you looking for with content? As that's probably not going to change massively.
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Ok, on Car side you are right. 9 new Cars since beta start is good. And yes most of them don't appeals to me.
But if i count right there are just 3 new tracks in the same period (Palm Beach, Brianza and Lime Rock). That seems really slow to me.
Feels3 did the same pace and he works alone.
 
MarcG said:
yes yes I know that as above *I* understand everything but NEW customers WONT thats the point....they see a RELEASED game with BROKEN components....do you understand that? will THEY call it ready and released!?!?! NO they'd think it was a BETA because thats what gamers do and THATS what you're getting now with people asking "when is gold?"...not just on this forum either I can tell ya!
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How are you expecting new customers, totally new customers - and that many of them - to find rFactor2 without it being marketed? If some do find it - that's OK.

I'm fine with any new folks who find their way here asking when it's going gold, it doesn't bother me like it does seem to you. I just answer them, explain to them, which is what I was trying to do in this thread. They can either take it or leave it right now based on the answer they got and the software they've tried. And that's where you (for some reason) came in.

We could easily just pull any of the old components from the downloads page, Marc, but we don't. You know why? Because we're not hiding anything. The fact that a new customer (albeit few who are new) might request a refund, is OK. If someone has a bad experience, they may contact us, or post in the forum. If someone wants to know about gold, they can ask. They can choose to stick around, or they can leave, but I'm still going to reply to their questions about gold with pretty much the same answer. That's all I did.
 
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