green serpent
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Oh, I'm sorry, I'll remember next time to put "in my opinion" before every sentence, so i don't upset the elitist gatekeepers. Am I allowed to express an opionion, is that okay with you?
Future plans for rF2?
- Thread starter Martin Vindis
- Start date
green serpent
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Is that an objective fact or a subjective opinion? Because apparently arround here you're not allowed to express an opinion.
Havner
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Please do.
Saying "not very many people gives a toss about BTCC, LeMans, Indycar, Nascar" and the whole wording of your post is not stating an opinion, it's a fact statement not based on any foundations except "I think so so I must be right".
I see we got a touchy one.
green serpent
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For the sake of your argument, let's assume I was stating a fact and not just expressing my opinion in what you quoted, but we'll actually put it in it's context: "right now who out there in the wide world gives a toss about BTCC, LeMans, Indycar, Nascar etc? Relatively speaking, not very many people."
The key word here is "relatively". Maybe within the rF2 community, these things are indeed a big deal, but I wasn't talking about the rF2 communitity. I was saying "realtive" to the "wide world" (i.e the general population), they are not a big deal.
The key word here is "relatively". Maybe within the rF2 community, these things are indeed a big deal, but I wasn't talking about the rF2 communitity. I was saying "realtive" to the "wide world" (i.e the general population), they are not a big deal.
Fell free to continue with ad hominem attacks and with making assumptions about me as a person.
Havner
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I'll tell you a secret. For the "wide world" the whole motorsport, racing cars, racing simulators and anything related are not a big deal. So you just made your whole own argument null and void saying that your original post was insignificant.
I'm not making any assumptions. Your own sarcastic reaction to my post spoke for itself.
Ayrton de Lima
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They didn't even deliver the hybrid system, the development is not complete, Studio is not the codemaster that has F1 as its main product, there is Wec which is too weak for that, certainly BTCC as a game would attract more people, if we consider that the development is complete, turn off the light and close the door.
Currently I believe its only F1, WEC & BTCC that use hybrid.
F1 - license never happening
WEC - standalone sim
BTCC - TICK! implemented and works
IndyCar* - possibly burned all those bridges
So it seems its not really that essential for rF2
green serpent
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Okay, I can see how choosing to speak in a sarcastic tone could lead you to assume I'm touchy. To be fair, seeing as your reply to my original post was nit-picky, obnoxious and condesending, I made my own assumptions about you also, and so replied in the appropriate tone.
I'm sure S397 and Motorsport Games are raking in so much money with the BTCC and the IndyCar content. Let's just hope that the next time they focus on a niece demographic within an already niece market, it's a real big hit. (and I genuinely hope it is).
Meanwhile, Kunos Simulazioni must be really struggling after selling so many copies of AC. Focusing on a broader audience with cars everyone knows and loves, plus also having a game that's easier to mod must have really been a bad idea considering how big the player base was.
BeamNG look like they're really struggling too after making their soft-body physics simulation which spawned countless viral YouTube videos.
But yeah I was just projecting my own personal beliefs, so I guess my point wasn't really valid after all.
Havner
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I wasn't alluding to the success or lack thereof of AC, BeamNG or any other simulator. Just to the statement that WEC, BTCC and IndyCar are boring and not popular racing series.
Saying that BTCC and IndyCar are not popular or nieche (as a racing series, worldwide) because they don't sell very well within rF2 is like saying that F1 (as a racing series, worldwide) is not popular because AMS2 (which has one of the biggest and widest commercial F1 offerings) has low player count. It's beyond me how one could even deduce such a conclusion.
It's really not.
Things are changing
IMSA, Dakar and World rally championship use hybrid systems too.
Indycar are going to hybrid.
There are news that say that Nascar and Supercars could go too.
Ayrton de Lima
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As stated below, several categories are already adopting the hybrid, the problem is that you can only do one F1, one Lmp1-h, and so on, iRacing did this and continues to do so if the game has good dlcs and content With a good standard, sales increase, we can't talk about content that was released in 2012 and that no one uses like f2, or the c6 corvettes or upgrades to a new standard or removes as has already been done with several cars in the game.Standalone sim in 2024 is ridiculous.
Lazza
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S397 several years ago said that things like hybrid will come when they license cars that use it.
From a modding and player perspective, that's disappointing as an approach.
But if we're talking about the future of rF2, or at least the ongoing viability of it, it doesn't seem completely illogical. If they spent the time right now to bring across the hybrid system from LMU (ie proper hybrid, not the BTCC version), the only direct benefit is to players and modders who sell their cars, because without a licensed car relying on it you can't attribute any protected sales to the feature (you could suppose particular third party cars/genres will drive some extra sales, but I don't know how strong a case that is for planning meetings).
Taking a step back, rF2 has had 3 goes at this: the ISI model with relatively few real cars, S397 doing some more licensing, MSG pumping money into bigger series and features like race control. At all times it's been 80% of what it needs to be as a game, with various issues and shortcomings stubbornly dragging it down (and, with social media how it is, an easy target for ridicule).
Many of us have had criticisms, and a lot of that is justified, but if it were easy to manage ongoing profitability and bug fixing / feature adding, they would have done it. It's our leisure but it's their livelihood - it's not like they have any reason to not do their best.
I'd love rF2 to at least run in a trouble-free and user friendly manner, and some extra features (and content) would be great, but working towards that - in the real world - has been ongoing for 12 years and hasn't seen success. Even if its troubles halved (or better) overnight, many people would shy away purely by reputation.
LMU and other similar projects might not be what many rF2 users want, but it might be what S397 needs. It's a lot like buying DLC, it's just got its own custom UI
(and features, I hasten to add, lest the "rF2 mod" cries ring out)
And there are people getting LMU (who are interested in that content! Perhaps largely from locations where the "Le Mans" movie wasn't renamed to "Ford vs Ferrari", but others as well) who have then decided to try rF2 for the first time. So there is some trickle-down benefit already.
I really do hope some more bugs get fixed on both sides, though. For me it's much too early to forecast LMU's demise, but patience isn't infinite.
From a modding and player perspective, that's disappointing as an approach.
But if we're talking about the future of rF2, or at least the ongoing viability of it, it doesn't seem completely illogical. If they spent the time right now to bring across the hybrid system from LMU (ie proper hybrid, not the BTCC version), the only direct benefit is to players and modders who sell their cars, because without a licensed car relying on it you can't attribute any protected sales to the feature (you could suppose particular third party cars/genres will drive some extra sales, but I don't know how strong a case that is for planning meetings).
Taking a step back, rF2 has had 3 goes at this: the ISI model with relatively few real cars, S397 doing some more licensing, MSG pumping money into bigger series and features like race control. At all times it's been 80% of what it needs to be as a game, with various issues and shortcomings stubbornly dragging it down (and, with social media how it is, an easy target for ridicule).
Many of us have had criticisms, and a lot of that is justified, but if it were easy to manage ongoing profitability and bug fixing / feature adding, they would have done it. It's our leisure but it's their livelihood - it's not like they have any reason to not do their best.
I'd love rF2 to at least run in a trouble-free and user friendly manner, and some extra features (and content) would be great, but working towards that - in the real world - has been ongoing for 12 years and hasn't seen success. Even if its troubles halved (or better) overnight, many people would shy away purely by reputation.
LMU and other similar projects might not be what many rF2 users want, but it might be what S397 needs. It's a lot like buying DLC, it's just got its own custom UI
(and features, I hasten to add, lest the "rF2 mod" cries ring out)And there are people getting LMU (who are interested in that content! Perhaps largely from locations where the "Le Mans" movie wasn't renamed to "Ford vs Ferrari", but others as well) who have then decided to try rF2 for the first time. So there is some trickle-down benefit already.
I really do hope some more bugs get fixed on both sides, though. For me it's much too early to forecast LMU's demise, but patience isn't infinite.
Ayrton de Lima
Registered
I understand these points, but it's been 12 years, of those 12 years the wec had its main category Hybrid mps last 10 years the F1 is also hybrid so we can't say that there was no opportunity to license the cars, I want to drive the LMU cars but no only on those tracks, so where would I have it? in rF2, a lot of people must also think like this I believe, because we only had the chance with the URD mods, but in Aura which is a little better in version 2.0 and now in ASMG with the Hypercars that even Studio only licensed for rF2, the Vanwall the game loses a lot and the studio lost a lot with it, I'm just sad because LMU is not a game that you want to play for hours.
Lazza
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There are people whose job is to seek and manage licenses for this sort of thing, I wouldn't make any assumptions about what possibilities there were (especially F1
), and I think again if you're looking for reasons to bring features to rF2 this sort of one-out licensing makes sense, but as soon as you bring a single car that might be available there'll be "where others?" complaints. And that demand/desire for more cars - which we saw in the DLC as well - makes the costs involved seem less justified if the take-up will be reduced.I get that you want rF2 to have everything so you can have it all in rF2, and we're spoiled with open games and modding that we can play on all different tracks with cars, but before that started happening there were many games that did well with a restricted and actually quite small roster of cars and tracks. At some point economics is a factor, it's not what we might want, but it's better than studios going broke and we have nothing at all.
There are heaps of people playing games on consoles and spending countless hours doing it. Not everyone feels a need to swap and change all the time, LMU already has a variety of cars and enough tracks to get by; I see some people complaining about lack of content, but it seems like they get sick of a track after 2 hours in a game built around 6- and 24-hour events, and often these are people multiple seconds off the pace. Working at shaving off seconds/tenths is part of what sim racing is about in my eyes, so I don't understand the more-content mentality there. (and if you really are sick of it, just play rF2 instead...)
Sometimes I think people are seeing the idea of abandoning (or slowing) LMU development and concentrating on rF2 is some fantastic idea that'll work for x,y,z reason - but it's literally where they just came from. If it was going to work that well, it already would have.
I would put money down that the reason LMU is the sole focus is for a contractual/financial/legal reason. WEC/FIA whomever said they were getting a full standalone game after the debacle or the lawyers were coming. Again, entirely my personal reading of things but I would again guess that once the 2024 content is out, we see some stuff for rF2.
From the recent BTCC article:
The new deal sees Motorsport Games pay the company behind the BTCC (BARC – TOCA LIMITED) $225,000, significantly less than the “approximately $0.8 million” claimed in last year’s licencing cessation.
Would they be forking over 225k to someone if they didnt intend to be making money off it?
Germano Cervini
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Sto provando Lemans Ultimete da molto tempo, e devo dire che devono lavorare ancora molto, hanno pompato troppo il motore grafico, e questo sta portando a bloccare bug e cose strane che non esistono qui in RF2 ha un potenziale gtrand, ma è limitato sul Wec, vanno molto piano e questo mi preoccupa sia per LMU che per il futuro di RF2 che ormai è semiabbandonato da tutti!
davehenrie
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Do you have an AMD Videocard? Can you post a screenshot of the 'block' in the BUG Section of this forum?
Lazza
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Eh, don't bother. Germano is talking about things in his usual way, in this case talking about an LMU issue in an "rF2 future" thread on the rF2 forum, when this bug is already reported on the LMU forum (where he'll happily call a response "really stupid" if someone gives some generally useful advice in response to his vaguely worded description - not this issue and not responding to me, for the record).
If there's a positive at least he doesn't seem to have 2 logins like here, yet.
(yep, that's all personal...)
If there's a positive at least he doesn't seem to have 2 logins like here, yet.
(yep, that's all personal...)
Sergitroon
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Several years ago they said that they would implement offline championships and they have not kept their word, I really like Rfactor 2 but I think I am going to go to AMS2 I just want to recreate historical championships and I see that with Rfactor it will not be possible