Fundemental improvements on the management of the Competition System

Discussion in 'Wish Lists' started by Risto Kappet, Jun 9, 2022.

  1. Risto Kappet

    Risto Kappet Registered

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    Tl;tr - I WISH that the CS was either fixed or shut down.
    In my opinion having a disfunctional competition system does more harm to rF2 ingeneral than if the whole system didn't exist. It's become a running joke and is exhausting peoples patience by repeatedly putting them into situations where they expect a race but fall into bugs. The frustration can lead to people leaving. Those few die hard fans or accidental joiners would be better off in custom league race or some simple open server in the first place.



    So despite the LMP2 race few days before already crashing, today I tried to promote the Competition System by entering and streaming the GTE at Le Mans race. The race itself was not promoted anywhere, there was not even a forum thread or a single social media post about it.
    I tagged Jimmi in the forums regarding this a few days ago, he said it's his fault and he will "talk to the guys" but there was nothing done.
    So in short: during Le Mans week - an event which means the most for S397 (what does the 397 stand for again?) there was the oppurtunity to create great racing, special events, which you did - created three cool events. But left it totally unorganized, unsupervised, bugged.

    This could be summarized for the whole competition system - something was created, but it's left out cold to die. Jimmi kind of organizes something, but is obviously tired, too busy or too casual about this. Then again he is probably just a representation of what's going on in S397 internally. And it often feels like Jimmi is the only one who provides us with any insight or context into anything. When will there be someone who is actually serious about making the CS a better experience? Who is responsible for constructing the rF2 team now that Marcell has left? Are you guys actually searching for someone? Does rF2 even have a roadmap anymore?

    So back to the race tonight again:
    There were ~36 entries which was a good setting for a great race, but we were split in two and my split never got going due to a server issue.

    Why even is the limit so low to split drivers into two? What is the obstacle that forbids ~50 car grids like in normal league races? Do you have statistics that this is the optimal number and you are not ruining potential races by randomly(!) splitting ~40 driver grids into 26 and 14?
    These issues especially with CS are so common that I could see this one coming and already write this thread ready in my head. I guess it works decent under "normal" load when there are single digits of entries doing the same event for weeks in a row, but what's the statistics on Formula Challenge and GT Challenge races being cancelled in this system? Broken splits on BMW M2 Cup, why did you lose that series to ACC?
    Not even going to mention the daily races, what % of the sessions are with 0 or 1 entries?

    Anyway I write this because I really care for rF2 and want to see it improve.
    From the outside, it seems obvious that you should either save your face and admit the CS is a failure and let people focus on functioning league racing and the special esports events which seems all that MSG-S397 is focusing on. Special events are going great like the last LMVS proved, but surely this isn't the sole output of rF2's purpose?

    But in all honesty having seen the Rennsport team up close for example, much more functioning, transparent and flexible organisations like them are going to sweep the floor with you, no matter how good and superior the underlying physics engine is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2022
  2. Jeroen Goudeseune

    Jeroen Goudeseune Registered

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    Im also driving in races on the competition system and certainly can understand some of your frustration. The CS is largely dependent on the hard work of Jimmi, and he has to work with what he gets. Ive got the impression that the CS is dependent on 1 person, this is certainly not future-proof. But more drivers can generate more revenue, so its snowball who has to get start rolling!

    For me, the future of rfactor 2 is largely dependent on how the CS can evolve. In that way, I'm missing some ambition from the parent company to invest in the CS. I cant find the ambition of MSG to close the gap with iracing about esports/online races. But on the other side, we dont know whats going on at the background. Resources are not unlimited, and we clearly see that since takeover from MSG there is plan to release content (and generate revenue from rFactor 2).

    When you use the competition system, it clearly states: beta. So when in beta-phase, you can expect some issues.

    This article on the BTCC website, written together with MSG and published recently, states this: "Daily BTCC competitions through the rFactor 2 competition system will be open to all users, allowing for statistics-driven benefits to each driver’s rating". So I think we may expect in the near future updates/new features such as driver rankings.

    There is some development, and 3rd party websites like www.rf2esports.com who can bring the CS to a better level, if S397 can/may provide the data and API's to interact with the CS.

    But for me, S397 may ask me easily 10EUR/Year for use of the CS or an advanced version of the CS. A free CS is something 'weird'. Just like on the Nintendo Switch Platform, you have to buy the games and there is an additional subscription for "Nintendo Switch Online" possible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2022
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  3. Maarten Nauta

    Maarten Nauta Registered

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    Ugh some painfull lingo here. Out of morbid curiousity I am interested what "activations" mean. Is that that you sell a computergame?

    Also "we remain excited" haha. Maybe I should say "we remain excited" for what the CP system could become even after today.
     
  4. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    Yea, they have all the great tracks where the great events are on. Yet we can't do indy500 or the daytona 500 because oval plugin doesn't work. We can't do the 24h of lemons/nurburgring because we can't do driver swaps, we cant do the bathurst race because bathurst track is outdated and poor quality and again, no driver swaps.

    Btcc finally seems a series that can be run properly on this Cs, yet there is no streams or any other promotion of it, even though its called a challenge series...

    It's been too long, and with rennsport on the horizon, there really needs to ve a move on with updates to the Cs if we want that to succeed at all.

    Other option would be to run 24h events, indy500 outside of the Cs, with just the qualifiers in the Cs maybe. But that stopped as well when they did the Cs.

    Much potential, of which none is used
     
  5. Filippo Caneo

    Filippo Caneo Registered

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    It's not "free" you actually have to pay +10€ because to race in a series you must buy ALL contents even if you want to race in a free track. For example if the calendar of a serie is Mores (free), Botniaring (free), Silverstone (free), Donington (DLC) you still have to pay for Donington even if you want to race only in Mores. So trust me a paywall CS is the last thing you need.
     
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  6. Foxtrot

    Foxtrot Registered

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    Hi.
    Seems every time there's a series I'd like to enter, it wants me to buy outdated reiza junk.
    I was foolish enough to buy Imola. Those old shaders make the trees and grass look like neon signs, its like playing an ISI game circa 2001 lol. Hurts the eyes.
    The BTTC series should have been perfect for CS. We have 3 official tracks, 4 official layouts from the series, yet S397 wants you to buy Virginia.
    WTF...
    Outdated junk that isn't even from s397 or part of the BTTC and will probably never get updated. No thanks.

    /end rant :D
    Regards.
     
  7. Remco Majoor

    Remco Majoor Registered

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    To answer your question how many races are empty in the daily races, this was season 2;
    upload_2022-6-12_15-34-52.png
     
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  8. Silver Jõffert

    Silver Jõffert Registered

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    For me CS has just been a cause for frustration mainly, constant issues with the Challenge series, having to cancel races/race results and then rescheduling them, causing me to work my life around when CS decides to work, not based on when the races are supposed to be. When the CS is in a “beta” phase (whatever that means at this point), then why insist on doing esports competitions on it, when it’s clearly not fit for it right now? Even one cancelled or rescheduled round is one too many in my opinion. You very rarely see rerun races in ANY other leagues out there.

    I have never really raced in CS outside of GT Challenge/Formula Challenge and the odd Hot Lap Quali. I have no desire to race on CS “for fun”. I have iRacing for that, where there’s way more series, actual people to race with, not just 5 people, but hundreds of people depending on the series with several splits so I can race against people of my level instead of 5 people with 20s gaps between everyone.

    The CS in its current state seems pointless to me and my impression is that S397 seems to feel the same, because CS hasn’t really (perceivably) developed, it didn’t even get an updated UI with the new UI that launched for the rest of the game, it stayed on the old UI.

    Series require me to buy tracks that I might not even race at, great for business, s*** for the end user. Another reason why I have no motivation to drive CS for fun. Imagine if iRacing required you to buy all cars and all tracks for a season to drive 1 race. HUNDREDS of euros to drive one race in some series.

    I don’t see the motivation in keeping CS running currently, unless it undergoes complete renovation that completely changes the face of CS. I don’t see it succeeding with the current low amount of effort that seems to flow into it. Sorry if there’s actually a lot of effort going in, but it doesn’t seem that way to the outside. This loops back to Risto’s point about there being 0 transparency. If you ask about something, 85% chance you’ll get a sarcastic/passive aggressive/non-informative answer. That’s not a great consumer experience, as a person who has invested a lot of time into rF2 and a lot of money into content for rF2 and would like it to go on for years, right now, unfortunately, the scales will be weighing towards other simulators soon.
     
  9. Jeroen Goudeseune

    Jeroen Goudeseune Registered

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    Here we go again...thats the reason why here we call the game rFactor 2 and not iRacing. You dont mention the fact you have to rent the iRacing game. rFactor 2 = 0 EUR for the CS. If you would do league races, you would have experienced rerun races.

    Dont know why you are subscribing to series while you dont want drive at these tracks...
     
  10. Silver Jõffert

    Silver Jõffert Registered

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    heh, okay :D
    trust, me I've done enough league races to have something to compare to, unfortunately S397 official championships on CS have been some of the least smooth leagues I've done. I still drive FC/GTC, because they're hierarchically one of the most important rF2 leagues, but I'm 100% certain that these leagues could be organized better without the use of CS. Before I drove in FC and GTC last season, I don't recall ever having a round rescheduled in any competition in 2 years of competitive simracing. Both on circuits and in rallying.

    Going back to the iRacing bit. I could compare it to whatever else. NO OTHER LEAGUES out there that I have ever heard of require you to buy all of the content for the entire season to only drive 1 race. It just puts people off jumping in for a race when they have to pay for a track or car that they might not even use.
     
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