Freedom of will

Discussion in 'Wish Lists' started by Luiz De Boni, Jun 1, 2012.

  1. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    just to pick up on this idea, which I think is good in principle, the only major downside is when theres hundreds of tracks which a fair amount have different versions you're gonna need a lot of diskspace. Also if Mods were to be controlled this way somehow then you're gonna need a new HD!
     
  2. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    Why a lot of diskspace??

    Updates are done for smaller changes. Completely different versions I can understand needing heaps of disk space but at the moment you have to keep all the full versions in case they want to run different versions??

    EG

    SPA 2007
    SPA EMG
    SPA GTL (I know I know but this is an example)
    SPA 1968
    SPA XXX

    All different versions, but lets say SPA XXX goes to SPA XXX 1.2. Currently we need to keep SPA XXX in case its needed and SPA XXX 1.2 in case its needed elsewhere.

    With the above mentioned for rF2 the only changes will be individual files so a smaller amount over all. Ie it keeps the main data in the main folder, changes go into 1.2 subfolder, which might only be a handful of textures or changes. How can that be larger than now? Go look at the Malaysia Folder. 1.0 239MB, 1.2 is only 16.7MB. In rF1 we would need to keep both "in case" so that is 2 x 240MB...

    However, like most things, it depends on the amount of change in that track. Small changes, update, large changes, release a new version.
     
  3. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    exactly is depends on the amount of changes, if small fair enouigh its no problem, but if you get 5 tracks each with 3 different versions and they each have 3 different layouts and they all have big texture changes then you start to get a problem. Again I like the idea I'm just throwing in the "other" scenario as well, best to look at it from all angles dont you agree :)
     
  4. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    There seems to be this persistent perception that a user has to create, understand, install, find... and otherwise be zen with the v-mod.

    Right now if you want to race, pretend you never heard of a v-mod, go to the matchmaker and pick a race. If the Join button lights up, race. If the Get Mod button lights up, press it. If it determines you can race, press the Join button and race.

    This second step can and probably will be eliminated, its there now just for testing. So from the perspective of a driver looking for race, if I already have the content that the dedicated server will be racing, you just Join the race.
     
  5. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    I'm not sure I completely understand, but let me try this example. You download the new 60s Mod that contains Brianza. Next week a new mod comes out that has some other tracks but they also included Brianza, not virtually but the actual track again. When you go to install it, only one copy of Brianza ends up in your installed folders.

    If however you mean you don't yet have Brianza but you want it and its only included in the new mod but this new mod contains 10 other tracks you dont want, in this case, I would find the Brianza component directly, download and install it instead.

    Or am I answering the wrong problem?
     
  6. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    What is an "extra content" example, I'm not sure who's post you are referencing?
     
  7. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    If vMod contains links to more tracks, especially tracks I doesn't have installed, but I have one which is currently running on the server then:
    - will I be able to see this server on server list
    - will I be able to join this server without downloading other tracks (lets sey other 10 tracks 150MB each)
    or I'll be forced to have all tracks and other components which are referred by vMOD installed on the server?
     
  8. Gridgirl

    Gridgirl Registered

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    I'll give it up!

    It can't be sooo hard to understand what we're talkinging about. But who knows the reasons why... maybe this speaks for itself

    I liked rf1 very much, and also i like rf2, but online gaming with rf2 will be more and more uninteresting for me. And i think i'm not the only one


    How ever, i'm out of this fruitless discussion...
     
  9. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    In this example I think we can ignore the virtual concept as it works the same either way.

    If a dedicated server is running a race tonight with 11 tracks in rotation, you will see the race but you need all 11 installed on your machine before you can join.

    The infrastructure could be created to find you a temporary "slot" until YOUR track is loaded. It could then release you and let you into the race if there is room on the grid. Right now there is no logic built in to handle this.

    The host could also let you join a server but then boot you with a mismatch if you dont have that track or when it switches to a track you dont have. Right now the system is set up to not let you in when a mismatch is possible.

    Your example implies the host wants everyone to have all tracks. If they instead intended to race one track each week for 11 weeks, then the better way would be to create a v-mod with just the track being raced that week. Even in its current crude state, this process takes a minute and only the host would need to do this. The clients just "JOIN" each week.
     
  10. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    Obviously your decision, but if you have time, when Brianza comes out, download just the track and try it offline. If you like it, I'll host a race and you try and join it. It will be a good test for both of us :)
     
  11. MarcG

    MarcG Member

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    Yeah I'm not talking mods, I was on about Tracks and future new versions of those tracks. See the quote I did from Slothman earlier about track versions and also my wish list thread on offline and online tracks.
    http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.php/5990-Seperating-Offline-Tracks-with-Online-Tracks
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2012
  12. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    Thanx for posting the answer

    Unacceptable for most of customers. Especially casual ones.


    It sounds, that admin have to create vmod for each pair: car mod and track to make things flexible. It will turn worse while mod is updated. Then all previous vmods (car+track) will stop to be valid. Let's do some calc: all league mods must be updated, for example to update pit groups.
    - 10 racing series (car mods)
    - about 50 tracks
    In makes 10x50 = 500 vmods, 1MB each... 500MB of useless data on each league driver hard disk. And I'm not talking about track updates etc.

    On the other hand, if vmod creation may be done (in future) automatically by dedicated server, if you assuming that in future would be possible to join server even if driver has no other tracks than one just loaded onto server.. isn't be better idea to not link tracks and cars together? Just verify signature of single components? I know I'm (we are) boring with this request... but wouldn't be better way?
     
  13. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    Therefore you as a host of casual races should not manage your races this way. Casual racers will gravitate towards popular casual mods. A large monolithic mod is probably better suited for leagues whose content is known from the beginning. In rF2 it is more important to manage mods differently and drivers will go to the races that meet their style of racing.

    In your example, IF your league driver races 5 times each week for two years straight, never racing the same track/car combo AND 0.5Gg of HD space pushes them over the top, THEN I'm sure an option could be added to delete v-mods as they are used.

    In practice, hosts will create just the vmods they are hosting, reusing some, deleting others. However over the years if we need to provide more control over this process, we will.

    Once components are moved into the database with the same robustness as ModIDs then verifying on a list of components will be an easier way to create mix-match pick up races.
     
  14. jerrymcc

    jerrymcc Registered

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    Slightly OT, but in many league mods I race in, I don't like some of the sounds or cam positions that are stock. So now I can edit the .sfx or .cam file as I want, and just be sure I have all the sound folders needed.

    It sounds like this will not be possible in the rF2. Are these types of files going to be editable on a client basis, or will I have to use the mods own files?
     
  15. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    Even in rF1 you cannot modify cam files.. or rather, those settings are ignored when online - cam settings installed on a server are taken to be used.

    @Gjon
    Again thanx for explaining things. To me it still remains a dead end. I hope I'm wrong, otherwise I hope you will implement some better way for all of us.
     
  16. osella

    osella Registered

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    Yes I'm worried about this too. There were quite a few things in a mod I often wanted to change, they didn't give me straight an advantage and they didn't cause mismatches, cam and sfx files mostly. It seems now you have to accept whatever the modder thinks is better. :confused:
     
  17. Slothman

    Slothman Registered

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    In the post above by Gjon he kind of illustrates what I have been trying to say with open servers Maxym.

    "Therefore you as a host of casual races should not manage your races this way. Casual racers will gravitate towards popular casual mods. A large monolithic mod is probably better suited for leagues whose content is known from the beginning. In rF2 it is more important to manage mods differently and drivers will go to the races that meet their style of racing."

    I think the definition of Casual is the important part. To me a casual gamer is one who only wants to play a race every now and than, so with this system they will need to gravitate towards the standard content (lets assume ISI cars and tracks become standard content).

    However if a server admin wishes to ATTRACT the casual gamer with new tracks, they will have to have a server with a smaller rotation. Lets say 2 tracks. That admin can change this say once every 1,2,3,4 weeks...whatever they choose...hell daily if they wish. But it lets them AIM it at a set target and with auto download, a lot easier.

    League Practice servers that are open (which is completely different target in my opinion) can choose either all tracks in a season (lets say 20 for arguements sake) and rotate them through OR set up the server each week with a modified vMOD (which is downloadable via the auto download) to just have the circuit for that week. To be honest that second option is so easy.

    vMOD 1 - All content for the season....got it, done..aimed at the league runners...an organised bunch.

    vMOD 2 - gets updated each week and is for practice sessions, still points to the content from vMOD1 but just uses what it needs for that week. The league runners get used to using and than getting the update next week, as far as they are concerned they have 2 vMODs, one for league on for practice....and because all the content is already on the PC, delete the vMOD when done. I know it takes me more to run in leagues like that now.

    Other leagues release tracks as they go, so just releasing the vehicles as a component and than each week the next track with vMOD from server is also viable.

    Honestly that really isnt that much different to how they are run now. The only difference is 30 seconds - 1 minute extra work for the admin to generate a vMOD (literally 20 seconds) upload, install, host.

    jerrymcc - cam files, dunno, but sounds appear to be a seperate "module" outside of the "package" to allow easy changes....not yet implemented, kind of like the vehicles/teams/skins....don't quote me on that going on what i have seen in the game and comments from Gjon and Tim etc....

    Gridgirl - I think confusion is the biggest part...and I am also guilty of that and causing it by using the wrong terms. I honestly can see what your trying to say (although I will admit my last reply to you I wasnt sure on a few things in your post) but don't think it will be as big a problem as your making out. On that...Gjon, I was referring to vMODS created that contain the content.

    Personally I would like ISI to release a list of things for us to refer to, kind of a glossary. The biggest issue I think is the term vMOD or MOD in general. It makes it hard for people to look past MODS in rF1.

    I was scribbling some ideas about the component system last night....and that is the key right there. People are still thinking Mod Teams will be releasing content like ISI or how the Maserati mod got released. This, imo, is a BIG mistake and the way ISI released their content I think has led to major confusion. The way they released their mods is perfect for leagues, not for content distribution.
     
  18. darthgus

    darthgus Registered

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    Seriously - if you are worried about 500MB of space, go and buy another hard drive. 1TB are under 80 bucks, hell go buy one dedicated for rfactor2...

    Your rfactor2 dir once you have a crapload of cars and tracks is going to be 20-30GB or more - This is modern gaming - get used to it and upgrade with the times..

    Even worrying about every track having major modifications and versioning of this is still small scale in the grand scheme of things..
     
  19. darthgus

    darthgus Registered

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    Ultimately gridgirl, if you arent running a dedicated server, you dont need to worry about any of this, you should be able to jump online, join a server and race.

    The only extra step for a server admin(and its seriously a 30 second step) is to create the vmod, which pretty much is a colllection of components (inc cars, physics, sounds, tracks) and is really there so auto downloading can be a reality, and the dreaded rfactor 1 mismatches of people hacking up mods/tracks to play online goes away.
     
  20. Gjon Camaj

    Gjon Camaj Member

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    Adding the ability to tag files to be excluded from the ID check is something that still needs to be implemented.
     

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