FOV/Seat Position Opinions

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by miguelskaff, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. miguelskaff

    miguelskaff Registered

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    Hello guys,

    One of the main questions that I have had in the sim racing world is which is the perfect and most realistic position of the drive which in the sims is defined by the seat position and FOV.

    I have tried getting as close to the virtual wheel as possible and also have tried to move the position backwards as far as possible whitout looking unreal. finally my conclusion is that I adjust the position in a way that it looks as real as possible graphically speaking. What are your thoughts ?
     
  2. oHOWEo

    oHOWEo Registered

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    I used a FOV calculator but it placed my view right at the front of the dash, couldn't see any dials. I reset to default
     
  3. kaptainkremmen

    kaptainkremmen Registered

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    The problem with a realistic FOV is that you don't always get a realistic view . With a single screen and no head tracking etc you end up with a view that forces you to look straight ahead. In real life you don't look where your screen is pointing.

    If you look at these screenshots you can see how with a 'realistic' FOV you can't see the apex when you reach the end of the braking zone. You end up turning in blind and hoping you hit it. With Head Tracking or triples you can get the view in the second image which is much more true to life. A better option might be the third image where the Higher FOV at least lets you see where you are going. :)

    The key to driving fast consistently is to be accurate. You can't be accurate if you can't see the target.

    Pick a view that lets you see the things you need to see and let the Supercomputer between your ears calibrate itself :)

    View attachment 14649
     
  4. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    There is technically only 1 "perfect" view. Thst is

    A. The camera creation spot - the camera/view creation point to be at the imaginary in-game driver's eyes (games usually call this the seat setting)

    B. The cam's FOV - (rFactor measures this in vertical degrees)

    C. Camera Pitch - may be called something like "head pitch" or "seat pitch".

    D. Depth and convergence settings for 3D players - (well, technically depth should be as deep and far as you can comfortably set for yourself since the i'n-game depth won't match the insane amount of depth a human can perceive i'n real-life, so it's really just the convergence that then needs to be set for the realistic distance ratio of in-game objects to the player).

    The "perfect" (in-terms of realism) setting for point "C" (camera pitch) is arguable and seems to have two different sides of believers, so I'll ignore that, but there is no arguing that points "A" (camera spot/point/placement) and "B" (camera FOV) can only, truly have one setting for maximum realism.


    A. In 2D mode, to the camera point should be placed at the x-axis, y-axis, and z-axis of the exact centre point in-between where the in-game drivers eyeballs are supposed to be. We cannot see that at the moment (I've proposed a graphical view setup option/app in the past) which would be PERFECT for this) so I just assume that the in-game view spawning point (called seat setting) of "0,0" is this exact position, BUT, I have a feeling that this isn't always the case. Even Tim stated that the Kart's default view is too high, not to mention all the mods out there, and so on.

    Note: In 3D mode, this perfect camera creation spot would be in the exact centre of each of the 2 eyeballs of the imaginary in-game driver, rather than dead-centre between them like you would with a mono-view (mono/2D = 1 camera/eye, stereo/3D = 2 cameras/eyes).

    B. So, we've figured out the exact and perfect point for placing the game camera. Then, from that tiny point onward, we have to decide at what angle that camera/view extends and expands outwards. That is called the FOV angle (can be measured as the vertical FOV or horizontal FOV). For this, they is also only 1 truly realistic view, and that is to have everything on screen be the exact same size, relative to your vision, as it would be in real-life. For this, go and use the FOV calculator.


    That is the only way to truly have a realistic view/perception. From there, it's just a matter of how much you want to compromise depending on your own personal setup (number if screens, screen size, your distance to screen, etc. For example, my setup calls for a 17.5 degree FOV for a truly realistic view, however I was compromising at 25 for about a year, in the past 2 weeks I decided to move down to 23, and as of last night, 22. I have a TrackIR 5 along the way and plan on using a 100% realistic FOV once I get that. TrrackIR 5 + NVIDIA 3D Vision + triple screens = SIM-GAMING HEAVEN :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2014
  5. nipzon

    nipzon Registered

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    I use to have a very high FOV until I came across the discussion about this which made me look at my setup. A high FOV gave me a tunnel vision causing me to sometimes out break myself, like the apex sped up to you at an excellerated rate.

    I tried the FOV calculator but it was too big a change in one go. Someone then suggested to do it in stages to get use to it. I am now down to 30 from 65+. I cannot remember now if I see the apex at 30 but doing it in stages makes your brain use to it.
    RL racers lines a point at the apex then before getting there starts looking up the road, someone ones told me, not sure but thats how I race now.
    My point being proper FOV setting will improve your racing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2014
  6. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Ya Nipzon, back i'n my single-screen GT Legends days, I went from a defaul-ish FOV to around 30 or 35. It was just way too much in one go though. So I then set the FOV back to just 3 - 5 degrees lower than what I was used to, and spent about 3-5 racing days (days that I actually played) getting used to that new FOV while making sure that I could at least match my previous best laptimes (or within a tenth). Then after both of those (3-5 play-days, and matching best lap-times) I would lower the FOV by another 3 - maybe 4 - degrees. Over time, I finally settled on 30 degrees, well actually 28.

    I wanted to keep going lower with my FOV. In the last couple months before I got my triples, I was using 28 degrees instead of 30, but 28 was really starting to "push it" with a single screen. I could personally make do with it, but I don't think most people would.

    I recommend to other single screen players to at least aim for eventually settling at 35 degrees, then - from 35 - you can drop it by 1 degree at a time, maybe 2, and see if you can handle a 28-34 degree range (or even lower, lol). But, in time, I think anyone can at least get comfortably down to 35.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 26, 2014
  7. coops

    coops Banned

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    IMHO ppl are not using the right fov or seating postion when it comes to using a single screen. most ppl that i have given the correct fov from the calculator and what they have told me, they cannot race with the lower FOV it does not look right. with triples a lower fov is perfect. i did use 60 fov with single now use 29 fov with triples. imho single screen head tracking you should be able to drop to a lower fov easier as some have said do it slowly. IMHO if you are not driving cockpit who cares about your fov you are driving the sim wrong with any other view, like driving cars with aids they dont have them its just not simulated racing its wrong. Cockpit view and auto clutch only for me and will never change for any1 or league. Its hard to find leagues running like this thats for sure but i will find 1 in the Oceania region soon i hope.

    IF ANY1 knows of a league that runs like this in the OCEANIA REGION let me know PLS. COCKPIT VIEW AND AUTO CLUTCH ONLY.
     
  8. Thor

    Thor Registered

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    I use a 24-inch monitor with FOV 40 And Use TrackIR 5 is perfect.
     
  9. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    What I find with a low FOV and single screen is track 'squishing'.

    example.....I'm talking rF1 here,may be different for rF2?

    Eau Rouge

    Normally flat out (ish) in F1 car.
    Lowering FOV with the calculator says 22 or so.
    Now the track is all bunched up and Eau Rouge has to be taken at a lower speed and even down a gear.
    A more realistic view is all well and good but that kind of thing is not realistic and not acceptable to me.

    What I want from my FOV is 'realism' as if I'm actually sat in the car at the track and that it drives realistically.
    If a corner needs say 20 degrees of wheel rotation in real life then that's what I want to do.
    Lowering FOV makes that 20 degrees into 30 degrees (depending on how low you go).

    Everything is defined by your monitor with regards to this aspect.
    rift,triples singles will define what FOV you can use for realism.
    irrelevant of what I use I want to take that 4th gear corner in 4th,not knock it down to 3rd because the 'scene' is squished.

    I tested different FOV's and it makes a difference to your lap times,don't remember which was better/faster?
     
  10. kaptainkremmen

    kaptainkremmen Registered

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    Changing the FOV should not change the amount of steering input required for any given corner or the speed you can go through it.
     
  11. jonrarit

    jonrarit Registered

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    My rule of thumb is to sit in the cockpit with the virtual wheel on then adjust both seat and FOV to get the circumference of the virtual wheel to match my actual G25 wheel, then turn the virtual wheel off,

    Works for me but I do have triple screens and a tracker

    see here

    jr
     
  12. Descoat

    Descoat Registered

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    Too low fov, as recommended most of the programs that calculate it, are not natural. This program says 21 degrees for my monitors and distance ( WTMF! ). This fov is insane because it´s continously shaking and when you turn the wheel it´s irreal.
    For me, the fov can begin at 24 with 3 monitors of 24". 30 is also good. 60,80 is a joke.

    And yes, the times can be better as low fov as possible because you can find the brake point easier, but finally you will made the same hotlap with 24 or with 45. it needs time to get comfortable.

    40 degrees with trackir5 is a good idea. I´ve tried that many times and 30 with triples.
     
  13. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    I've heard that many times but I find it to be untrue.
    I will go back and retest now.........................
     
  14. wgeuze

    wgeuze Registered

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    Next thing you're going to claim is that the track changes as well, am I right? ;)
     
  15. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    :rolleyes::cool:
    Wheel rotation does seem to be the same degrees :p
    Maybe it's the speed of the rotation needed to get round the corner?

    Go Drive any car at São Paulo GP.
    Do 1 lap at Default then 1 lap at 10.

    May be exaggerated but makes the point well for me?
     
  16. kaptainkremmen

    kaptainkremmen Registered

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    Everything is exactly the same. Your mind may tell you something is different but it is not... it just looks different. Compare replays or use MoTec. Film yourself driving each FOV. Assign a key to FOV and drive in circles while pressing the key. Nothing changes but the view.
     
  17. miguelskaff

    miguelskaff Registered

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    That is what i am doing. I have a 32 inch tv and my most accurate FOV is when i match the virtual wheel to the physical one. I don't know if it's the best for driving but i have achieved pretty good results.

    Thanks for all your opinions, turned out to be an interesting thread.
     
  18. kaptainkremmen

    kaptainkremmen Registered

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    The virtual wheels are all different sizes though. I often turn the wheel and see if my real hand (with imaginary glove ;) ) overlays the virtual one. When I use this method it always ends up around the same as the calculated one. :)
     
  19. MystaMagoo

    MystaMagoo Registered

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    It is different .
    It is also a very different driving experience.
     
  20. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Lowering the FOV doesn't magically change physics.

    The sharpness of corners looks more like they do in real-like - sharper. The steepness of up and downhills looks like they do in real-life - steeper. The size of objects looks, to you, like they do in real-life - much bigger.

    Take my advice from my first post, lower it very slowly.
     

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