FOV Calculator

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by taufikp, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    When I raced f2000 and some other race cars in real life 110 felt like 170 lol, everything is vibrating and slightly blurry, your head is wobbling about everywhere, your body getting banged about and beat up, everything is shaking, etc etc. It was VERY visceral, going 110 in rf2 is NOTHING like a real formula car in my opinion.

    With a big fov everything looks straighter and less sharp which helps you sort of plot out a line through the corner much easier in your end since you can see the entire corner from entry to exit much more often and can then plot out a sort of straight line through it in your head, this is totally unrealistic I know, but it spoiled me, and takes time getting used to with out it even at just 54 from 59, let alone 30ish.

    On a side not what happenes when you put your fov down to 1 or 0 I've never understood the rfactor way of fov how does it go backwards??? Would a fov of 1 literally just make the tinniest things completely gigantic looking?
     
  2. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    I believe that racing ow irl with stiff suspension must be extraordinary and nothing is able to simulate those sensations.
    but imo artificial narrowed perspective is not best way way to achieve missing sense of speed ;). It is just faking missing sensations (mostly comes with vibrations) by faked perspective which makes feeling objects are moving faster then in real. Why feeling of moving faster? because are moving in narrower space
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2012
  3. Marek Lesniak

    Marek Lesniak Car Team Staff Member

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    @Spinelli
    It is just an angle of view. Simple mathemathics. 1 deg on 1 deg 1m from you gives ~17.5mm x 17.5mm window. Not a whole lot, right? With such FOV, when you look at your car's dials on the dash, most of the view will be covered by digital speed value.
    Now, if you expand that view on your 22" monitor, it won't be correct (in that particular case yes, it will be HUGE). But that is just because of a mismatch between defined FOV angle and your physical monitor size. Nothing else.
     
  4. GTrFreak

    GTrFreak Registered

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    It doesn't make things look bigger at all.

    I get the feeling a lot of people don't know what the change of FOV really does. It doesn't make things look bigger or smaller at all. It just has to do with the angle of visibility getting distorted or not. There is only 1 correct FOV for everyone and that has to be calculated with the size of the screen and the distance between you and that screen. That's been explained multiple times now. I made a little illustration to show this.

    View attachment 3184

    I'm not saying you have to use your correct FOV at all. I just want to point out that when you want to simulate real world vision, you should calculate the correct FOV. I'm racing with one monitor so I find the exactl right FOV too narrow to drive, especially online. With eyefinity you can get a lot closer to real life though.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. osella

    osella Registered

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    View attachment 3185

    I just realized that sensing of cockpit vibrations also depends on FOV, so all the arguing in vibrations thread could be calmer if everyone stated what FOV he is using, with very high FOV it's possible to stand brutal vibration coefficients but with values like 30 and lower it is not. Same with orientation rate, seldom used cam parameter in rf1 which in sane numbers can be used to further enhance feel of all gforces, besides vibrations and head movement.
    In the 37mod we used too intense orientation rate which makes you motion sick in lower FOVs, only is acceptable in super high like 55+ FOV. So most people used those "static" cams, which simply got rid of orientation rate (which are cams I wanted to use but I'm not the leader).
     
  6. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    The head shaking and movement that ISI had before they toned it down for the last couple builds really helped believe it or not. But I dont want to get into that argument again lol, that was like a 10 page thread arguing back and forth.

    I got to get used to lower fov im determined, having everything bigger, wider, more life like, its so much better in making you feel like you are actually there.
     
  7. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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    I think you explain very well what is all that talking about correct fov with this picture. Only matter its i can´t install my wheel just after the screen to match the distance of the wheel had to a truly dash board. Wich makes me always insatisfied with my fov most at the Open wheel cars. With Clios, meganes and touring cars i can have the exactly feel of a simulator, but not with open wheels.
    To add more discussion to the subject:


    Wich i don´t believe it is eye level besides its a fish eye camera.
     
  8. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    You want to see if you get a sense of speed with low FOV via Head shaking adjustment?

    Here you go.. I tried it!

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2012
  9. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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    Thats the problem with all head movement plugins. They try to imitate the sense of movement on real conditions but at our home we stay still and in a real car our head (eyes included) are shaking with all system and, i think, our brain or inner ear thing try to compensate all the movement turn driving at speed less disturbing than your video.

    Remember that the road doesn´t shake. Your video seems you are trying run away from an earthquake until 1:28.
     
  10. osella

    osella Registered

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    Sure Zeos only tried it for sake of experiment and doesn't actually play like that, it imitates more sense of epileptic seizure than sense of speed..
     
  11. SLuisHamilton

    SLuisHamilton Banned

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  12. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    Yeah that was messing with the XXXXtreams of the cockpit vibration multiplier. There is the Real-Head-movement plugin that keeps your eyes level/stable and shakes the car around you.. Which is more realistic.. But breaks free-look. So I cant use it.

     
  13. Timpie Claessens

    Timpie Claessens Registered

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    I use FOV of 25 on my 24" triple screens about 50cm from my face and the sensation and immersion is awesome, it's almost on iracing levels :p I use an FOV of 112° (horizontal) over there so I'm not sure what the absolute correct value would be for the vertical value
    When I was still on a single monitor I compromised a bit by using 30 but this was rf1 where you couldnt go below that
     
  14. GTrFreak

    GTrFreak Registered

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    I know you don't drive with those vibration multipliers but is that really the FOV you use? And besides that, how many monitors are you using? I can imagine you fell in love with having the most realistic vision but when you really race like that I would NOT want to try close battling in the clios with you. You absolutely don't have a clue where the sides of the car are, and where the car is in the environment. It's almost looking like the cockpit is some HUD in front of everything else. I don't have a feeling (when watching your video of that FOV) the car is part of the entire environment you (the player) is in.

    This is exactly the problem I face when lowering the FOV too much and thats why I'd like the run with a compromised FOV. IF I'll ever have eyefinity, it's an whole other story
     
  15. Gearjammer

    Gearjammer Registered

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    After watching a video of an F1 ride from the drivers point of view and then using the calculator to determine the "correct" FOV, I have found that either the game or the calculator is off by quite a margin. I understand that the lens FOV that was used needs to be taken into consideration as well, but I have had to triple my FOV compared to what the calculator says in order to get the same view.

    I use triple 22" monitors that are 40" away from my eyes. In the video of the F1 car, the outside of the front tires were just outside of my center monitor. With the calculator I was able to determine that my FOV should be 17.08 so I set in game to 17. This placed the outside of the front tires near the outside edge of my display and made everything appear very close.

    By changing my FOV to 51, I get an image that is very near identical to what I saw in the video and gives me a better feel for distance as well as speed.

    I am not saying my way is correct, only that it is what is working for me at the moment. Until I get information on the camera FOV to determine how that effects the numbers and the perception, I have to go with what I saw on the video and how the car feels in general when I have mine set to 51.
     
  16. osella

    osella Registered

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    Well, your way is certainly incorrect :) . Those onboard vids usually have very high FOV and they can all use different FOV so that's no useful reference point.
    The point of calculation is to get the same FOV as drivers eyes, not camera.

    edit found a rally vid with somewhat lower fov, notice how it makes you feel corners more intense
     
  17. MaXyM

    MaXyM Registered

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    Is it low FOV? I guess it's comparable to about 45* FOV in rF.
    note also, the road is only a bit wider than the car. on most modern racing circuits road is wider than highway
     
  18. ZeosPantera

    ZeosPantera Registered

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    I can handle 21° Vertical pretty well on a single screen. Using virtual mirrors, good headphones and the look commands makes racing completely possible in proper fov. If you look at the picture in the next reply you can see exactly how little the a ton more FOV adds to side by side racing, you cant see cars next to you no matter what FOV unless you have a MASSIVE triplehead.

    Here is the video I reference of my brother driving my setup (not a sim racer) in proper FOV on bathurst in a HistorX Shelby Cobra.




    Videos from real life racing usually can't be used to judge anything. You want a video to reference look at people who have their sims setup right..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEyMGsU-hZw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87NAoal1KBY

    You have to be mindful we are talking VERTICAL FOV in this.. so 17° makes sense because you are using three 16:9 monitors.. So the 9 bit is 17° and the 16 TIMES THREE is 48 so.. 90° horizontal. You are pretty far away from those triple screens so it is in all likelyhood taking up 90 horizontal degrees of your vision.

    [​IMG]

    Setting the FOV to 51° VERTICAL means you are pushing the horizontal to somewhere WELL above correct. With that amount of skewing I can't even calculate how high..
     
  19. GTrFreak

    GTrFreak Registered

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    I understand what you're saying but the calculator isn't in any way off..

    When lowering your FOV everything gets more towards reallife dimentions. when simracing you are sitting on your officechair/playseat with lets say, 3 monitors in front of you. The ingame environment is ofcourse only displayed on those 3 screens. However, when you IMAGINE being in a car, the environment is all around you. When lowering the FOV the screens get closer to reality when you look at dimensions.

    Instead of continueing this post with a lot of text I quickly made an illustration to explain. I hope this convinces a lot of people of how great lowering the FOV actually is. As said, it has some PROS AND CONS

    View attachment 3201

    I hope this explains it well :)
     
  20. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I have to admit, although its off topic, the view in those pics WITHOUT regards to FOV, is pretty bad. I hope you dont play like that for sake of "easier visibility and car placement". In real life you are sitting wayyy lower and straighter head on looking. Your eyes in that pic look like they are bolted on top of, or a little higher than the very top of your helmut and then facing downwards towards the ground.



    [​IMG]

    .
    In that picture above, the height should ideally be juuuust a tiny bit higher. It should be raised just a tad so that the bottom edge of the top sidewalls are visibile, rather than just the top edge of them. I know the fov is really close, that obviosuly should be adjusted for a single monitor. Im talking about eye height level in regards to reality though.


    In the following video, in terms of height, although not perfect (needs to still be lower), this guy has a pretty realistic view, eye-level height wise. I wish you could straighten the angle of the cam more so its less looking downwards and more straighter and head on looking, but his view is still more realistic BY FAR, than most peoples, in terms of eye level height position.






    Nico rosberg in a video I posted before about him explaining his driving position and view, said the top of the wheel with the rev lights is juuuusstt under his centre vertical weiwpoint, he also stated sometimes he has to try and lift his head to see some corners better because the view is so low that you cant see in front and to the sides of you unless whatever your looking at is pretty far away.

    Put your hands out in front of you like your grabbing a wheel at 9 and 3, now align the vertical centre of your hands with your chin, itll be something like that, basically you cant see beyond the wheel until about halfway past your vertical centre point. Therefore your view is very low and you are always naturally looking very far off in the distance because if you try to look close you cant, you will just be staring at your wheel or inside your cockpit. This can make car placement and accuracy difficult (just as it does so in real life, even Nico said it, and I can definetely attest to that), but the immersion it offers is awesome, plus its how it is in real life, and setting a low view point doesnt matter how many or how big your monitors are, anyone could do it.

    I dont understand how everyone is so picky about physics, ffb, FOV etc but then everyone uses such high cockpit views.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2012

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