Hi all, duplicate ticket, the original in the bug section. Recently I did some laps on Lienz in the Marussia and the F3.5 and found both cars flipping into the air when cresting the hill on the long straight. I have noticed this behavior before for instance with the F2 on Lime Rock on the hill after the fast right-hander. According to my judgement a Formula car with that amount of downforce at that speed shouldn't flip, except for when the aero has flaws or the car being very sensitive to air getting underneath the car(like the Benzes at le Mans). Funny thing is that the AI, driving at the same speed, are indifferent to the hill and stick to the road. Below the flying acrobatics in the F3.5. The setup I used was the unmodified 'medium' downforce package. Just scroll to the end for the action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_k4BrXEWKUY And here the same thing with the Marussia, driven with full downforce, and which at least doesn't seem to flip that violently. Again, just scroll to the end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sqa4809XjA Is this a bug?
I haven't looked at the video, because I don't feel like the hassle of downloading it etc, but I've experienced the same thing at Lime Rock Park and Lienz. I don't believe it's a bug... same thing can happen in real life too. I never saw an F1 car flip like that, but I've seen a video of a Porsche doing about the same thing at high speed couple of years ago. I would also believe the reason why the AI doesn't flip, is because they aren't using the same physics as we do. They might happen to have more downforce, or something else. You can prevent the flip however, by pressing the brakes at the tip of the hill, just before you would take off. That will bring the nose and speed down a tad, and you shouldn't be flying up in the air. But think about it, under those car is a big flat surface... if the nose of the air is pointed up a little, the car then becomes like a wing of a plane... I don't have the feeling anything is wrong there, but I might be wrong. Curious to see what ISI says about this
Ha, did this last night in the Marussia. Over the crest of the hill and whoo, off she goes! Disclaimer - I cannot drive the Marussia. I'm going to stick to the lower formulae for now
In real life they wouldn't race those cars on that kind of track. If they did they would add a chicane to slow them down like Limerock. Imagine you have 20 degrees on the front wing, the hill you climb is 20 degree gradient.....you crest the hill with almost no downforce (or at least not in the same direction relative to the track) and lose any ground effect
Yeah they need to patch this, because this never happened in real life .... lol I don't know what the OP is experiencing, could very well be a problem.
need to lift over a hill crest to avoid that behavior ... its the same at lime rock with these open wheel chassis. I believe it to be that the front wing creates up force as you crest and the road falls away. If you put some weight on the front end by lifting it doesn't happen (at least at limerock). Happens in all fast open wheelers at lime rock if you don't lift.
I'm a little surprised to see Marussia flip over like that because I think it the front wing should generate enough downforce to keep the nose down.
Stick your hand out of the window while driving (watch out for roadsigns and other cars) and try changing your angle of attack of your hand as well as it's shape. You will understand why marussia (and other downforce producing cars) can flip over.
Of course it can but I'd think that an F1 car (which could in theory drive upside-down in a tunnel) wouldn't flip on relatively small kink like that. But afterall I'm not a rocket scientist so..
Think back to when Mark Webber went airbourne? It's all to do with the front wing 'angle'. Air rushing 'over' the front wing creates the downforce. going over the crest at a high speed,front lifts up while rear wheels are still 'driving' the car forward. now the wing is acting as a 'brake' because of it's angle,it's just like a 'wheelie' effect.
Yep, but I don't think I see that effect in the OP's video How I see it, front hasn't lifted up enough to send the car airborn. I'd understand it if the front tyres were lifted from the ground but they aren't, which leads me to think that the front wing should generate enough dowsforce even though it is a little lifted. It is a relatively small kink in my opinion Also you can't really compare a Le Mans car of late 90's to a modern F1 car in terms of downforce. You know, I don't see F1 car flipping on that kink at Mulsanne
Because the lift off values exceed the amount of downforce generated by the front part. The reason why is simple, the little bump creates an elevation changes that exceeds the maximum amount of height at which the front downforce is still effective. Result? A back flip.
Don't go that route. I know how and why the car flips, I'm just thinking aloud if that's what would really happen when a modern F1 drove over that bump No need to try to provoke. I'm just not sure if those lift off values are enough in this very situation because imho that bump isn't that big. They've driven modern F1's on Nordscheilfe too which has similar bumps but I'm yet to hear of one doing a back flip
Which F1 has been driven to its limit on the Nord please? I'm being curious now. Edit: might be worth trying to lower the rear downforce.
