force feedback FR 3.5 2014

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nick95, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. Lenniepen

    Lenniepen Registered

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    I am having difficulties with most 'modern power steered' cars in rF2.
    I am using the black MOMO. I know it's not the best wheel ever, but it is not broken. I've solved the dead zone and clipping, using the 'ffb response curve' and pedal overlay plugin.

    The steering feels very weak on low speed, and stronger in high speed corners, which seems right, but I barely feel any lateral (cornering) forces.
    In high speed corners, like the last corner at Lime Rock Park, the bumps produce heavy alternating negative and positive forces, with the average somewhere around the center. This is very hard to drive.
    When I use a higher FFB multi value (and thereby introducing clipping), the FFB-peaks are stronger, but not the lateral forces.
    With the historic cars, and the Indy-car, I can feel lateral forces, so it seems to me it has something to do with power steered cars.

    I might test the spring setting in the Logitech Profiler, but this is a fake effect (correct me if I'm wrong), so that's not the way I want to go.

    Any suggestions?
    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. stonec

    stonec Registered

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    There is no power steering implemented in rF2 FFB to my knowledge. The problem has nothing to do with it. It's just that racing cars produce a lot less steering forces at low speed than at high speeds. So when you have a weak wheel (any Logitech one), low speed will feel light unless you bump up the FFB multiplier, which is a fake solution.
     
  3. Lenniepen

    Lenniepen Registered

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    I remember Tim saying Power Steering is implemented when the real car has it (I can't find the post). I believe he said that an option to disable power steering would be unrealistic, because then you are not simulating the car correctly.

    Power steering is used to reduce the cornering forces, so it may have to do with my problem.

    The primary problem for me is not the lightness of the FFB, but the lack of lateral forces with most cars. I notice I mainly drive by vision, other than a combination of vision and feel through the wheel.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2014
  4. Nick95

    Nick95 Registered

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    exact in the slow corners you will not feel the lateral force and driving only with a view only on FR 3.5 2014, same problem here, repeat with g27. (With the other cars all perfect)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2014
  5. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    First, there is no power steering in rF2.

    Second, usually most part of the ffb forces come from the lateral forces of the tires (so you are feeling them for sure). And that's partially the reason of why high downforce cars like the FR 3.5, its ffb is weak in slow speed and strong in high speed; at low speeds there is little aerodynamic effect on the car, so the tires are carrying less load, thus less lateral forces. On the other hand, at high speed, there is a lot of extra loading on the tires due to downforce, and they produce higher forces. Higher forces, stronger FFB.

    That means the range of forces that our weak steering wheels must cover is quite wide in high downforce cars; in street cars or racing cars with little downforce however that range isn't that wide and probably it feels better overall.
     
  6. 88mphTim

    88mphTim I'm new here Staff Member

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    Awesome understanding :)


    Sent using Tapatalk
     
  7. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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  8. peterchen

    peterchen Registered

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    +1
    Couldn´t explain it better!

    Case closed. (I hope)
     
  9. Nick95

    Nick95 Registered

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    Ok thank you very much to all those who responded. :) At the end, to remedy this reaction increase the caster of car and follow the guide of drR1pper?
     
  10. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Yes but try them in reverse order. :p

    Increasing caster in a car to help remedy an ffb wheel problem is not a good solution....perhaps the guide will be enough. Go through it and i think you will see the significance that the STM (steering toque minimum) value in Part 2 will have on the overall strength feeling of your wheel. But you need to read the entire guide and complete part 1 first before moving to part 2 as they are somewhat interrelated.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2014
  11. bokoboko

    bokoboko Registered

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    shouldn't u Tim try to fix it or let me rephrase it,shouldn't u make it work in slow speeds?
    shouldn't u compromise a bit from reality to gameplay? Again in slow speeds ffb is almost dead or realistic or u name it..but I don't know what the car is doing!

    Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
     
  12. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    But the problem is due to the ffb wheel you use...not the sim. If you bump up the strength in the low end forces (to make "it work in the slow speeds" as you say) then it'll feel good (or rather "correct") on older less powerful wheels (such as the g25/27) but it will feel wrong on the newer and more powerful wheels (e.g. t500 being the most powerful common ffb wheel) and completely unnecessary for the extreme ffb wheel owners (such as bodnar wheels) as they have near perfect strength reproduction across all force ranges meaning you'll feel everything (i.e. no ffb deadzones) and reproduce rather high forces.

    But again, this is essentially what an STM (steering torque minimum) serves for and it can be tailored for each wheel by the user.
     
  13. bokoboko

    bokoboko Registered

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    Im sry but as a user i cant pause the game then put more strength cause a slow corner is coming and then resume..
    U give me the chance to say that at least t500 is not like what ur describing..its a bit stronger than g25.Nothing more nothing less.(its even worst wheel than g25/27 cause of the belt in some cases but im not sure)
    I had g25 then 27 then t500.
    Anyway this was my problem with rf2 from the first time and i made my threads for that.I received a message from a dev telling me w8 a bit we are working something with the tyres u will feel more in the next updates,but nothing really changed.
    Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
     
  14. bokoboko

    bokoboko Registered

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    Ok what i really really beileve is happening?
    Devs cant give the feeling in the wheel so the excuse is that is realistic untill they find the way how to deliver and who cares then...we will feel then!
    Ok i might be a bit hard :D

    Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
     
  15. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    ???

    Have you tried using the STM and following the guide (shown below in my signature)?
     
  16. bokoboko

    bokoboko Registered

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    If i gudge from your comparison on the wheels then I dont think i will get the feel that i expect,i guess it might be another placebo effect(no offence really).Anyway i dont have rf2 anymore

    Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
     
  17. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    No offence taken, it can only be to your loss that you judge something without first trying it. And if you read the replies, i think you will see it's not a placebo effect based on the numbers (not that voice in numbers nessesarily merits truth). But you will be the ultimate judge of that (and the same goes for each of us individually).....if you try it. ;)

    “One good test is worth a thousand expert opinions.”
    - Wernher von Braun

    Admittedly, my earlier "comparison" was a bit confusing as i what i was trying to say is that a permanent fix in rf2 software so that the g25/27 felt good in the slow speed would feel wrong on a t500, only because the fix for a g25/27 is different to the fix required for a t500 and no fix is required at all for a bodnar user (i think). Hence why a permanent one size fits all fix is not a solution at all. The STM is the solution you speak of without being a one size fits all.

    I use 3% stm with my t500, which sounds like it wouldn't make a bit of difference whatsoever but funnily enough it does and a noticeable one at that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2014
  18. bokoboko

    bokoboko Registered

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    Fair enough then.

    Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
     
  19. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    If you decide to install rf2 again, consider giving it a try. ;)

    Fyi, iracing also has an stm function built into their sim only theirs is controllable both in the in-game menu and some ini file whilst rf2's is only in the plr.ini file.
     
  20. Mibrandt

    Mibrandt Registered

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    I wonder if RF2 is only for the elitist who spend fortunes on hardware. Its a bit discouraging to read that the G25/G27 is a weak wheel and that you cannot expect it to feel good because of that wheel. All my "ordinary" friends thinks Im crazy to have spent a fortune on a G25 - just to put things a little in perspective. Also when reading stuff like this I have a question that I think is interesting. Whats the aim of a sim? To BE realistic or to FEEL realistic?

    Is there some sort of statistic of which wheels RF2 users have? Maybe a poll or something? Maybe ISI could start making an option in the tuning menu to their vehicles to select G25 FFB / T500RS FFB etc etc? Because I too have no feeling what so ever in slow corners in this car and the F2.
     

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