Hi, First a bit about me, just to make this post more "serious". I'm game dev since 1998 , V-Rally, V-Rally 2, V-Rally 3, Need for speed porsche, Test Drive unlimited, in various coding domains: GFX,AI, Devices(pad,wheels,ffb), Cameras , Physics and Car Physics. The camera shaking in rF2, is very bad, it give nausea, make the viewing of the track difficult and it's not even realistic of what a drive see when he drives. Biological facts The feel of equilibrium, acceleration, gravity, and so bumps are not feel by the eye but with the inner hear. Wich is made of liquid and crystals. When the inner hear feels bumps and head motion, it instintly moves your eyes to soften/filter/remove those bumps. 2 experiences to demonstrate that. 1) when put somebody on a chair, in complete dark, you film his eyes with an infrared caemras, you turn the chair, is eyes will roll too, even if he see nothing 2) this one you can do it yourself, looks at in front of you, at your screen, not shake your head, the vision will not move. When there is conflicting information from inner hear and eye, you feel strange, it's difficult to focus on the road, and you can have nausea. What happens in a car When you are driving, you are looking the road, and all the bumps are filter/corrected by your inner hear, so the viewing of the track is smooth and it's the car cockpit that moving around you. What happens in a sim Because you are sitting and a standing chair/seat, you head is not moving at all, so the inner ear is not working, the eye don't correct the bumps. That's make 2 issues : 1) you can focus on the road, the road is shaking and not smooth, it's difficult to drive 2) you can get nausea because you have conflicting information from eyes and inner hear. How to fix this easily 1)You can do like iRacing, they have the head wobble effect that negate the bumps. 2) Smoohting filtering the camera , that's what I did in the current game i'm working on When computing the camera, you compute 3 things, camera position, camera forward direction,and camera Up direction. One easy way and it make greats effect and cockpit immersion, is to filtering the UpDirection with an Inertia. The code is something like that : currentUpDirection = lastUpDirection * Inertia + newUpDirection * ( 1 - Inertia ). With inertia = 1 and UpDirection initialised to vertical, the head will stay horizontal, just try it's not that bad,but it's not very realistic because when going on a slope for a long time, the head will naturaly aligned on the slope. With inertia = 0, there will be no smooothing at all. I personnaly like with Inertia = 0.85. Conclusion I hope you devs will consider this, or maybe tell me if I can code a mod for rFactor2 too do this. Cheers, Sebastien.
Well, not working, and having the head "fixed" to the cockpit is not good either if you really read/understand my post.
appreciate your post, and you have a very good point there, didn't realise it myself though.. Nevertheless, very good point and because of the realism, I hope this will be looked at..
@magicfr The head is not "fixed" to cockpit... all G forces act on it. Vibration mult in plr is just a fake effect (in my opinion) so you can turn it off. But that won't make you head beeing "fixed" to cockpit. But that of course won't negate the point of your post. I know what you mean.
Thanks guys, I know we can code plug for rf1, but can we already code some for rf2, and if yes, could somebody point me in the right direction? Because I could code this myself.
Finally somebody makes some sence about the headshaking and the way the human body works. I´ve never understand why the hell they make heads in racegames wobble like a wobblehead on your dashboard. Some people say it makes the game more immersive but for my it makes the game less smooth and plain stupid. After a while it even makes me sick. I know you can experience vibrations that make even your eyes vibrate but thats vibration from a big drill or something. Never ever did I experience headwobble like in rF2 even when I go offroading. Turning down the cockpit vibration makes it a bit better.
The man you've got to get this past though, is Gjon. The thing is, I recall a time long ago when many people including myself went on about the bad head-shaking in rFactor 1, so we turned it off. Eventually, head physics got modded by Reiza, and there was a genuine improvement we didn't think was possible with rF1. I certainly had hopes they could carry that over to rF2. But then we all saw the old code return again in an rF2 preview video! ...a step backwards. The head shaking being used as speed-multiplier "blanket cover" is wrong, especially since rF2 now has real bumps, it should have been left disabled for the beta until a new system is implemented imo.
I just want to say, that I for one enjoy the head movement I don't think its pronounced enough for the speeds that are being done. I have actually turned up head movement in the config files, because I feel it gives a better sense of immersion. Furthermore, I feel its feedback helps me get a better understanding of the course characteristics, which likely play a bigger role in my driving due to new tire deformation model. I just want to put my vote in for more head movement because a good deal of times, things are changed because of the silent don't speak up. Also for those that don't enjoy it you can turn it off in the config, I know you can, I know it works because there are 2-3 settings, and I did multiple tests changing them from 0 to 1 to 2 to see how greatly they effect movement. Changing them to 0, takes all head movement away. Which makes the game in my opinion sterile. Thanks,
Its because you don't feel those g-forces when your looking at a television/monitor. The head shaking is to make up for what you can't possibly feel without a full-motion cockpit so that people can get a visual interpretation of the forces acting on the player. It can also be turned down/off.
In reality, because the inner ear is correcty the bumps, what you are really seing is the car cockpit shaking around your vision, in rf2 it's the opposite, the vision is shaking around the cockpit , that's is wrong.
Well, I understand the first post, and I agree with it (almost). There is only one exception that I've experienced myself, racing with karts on a very bumpy road. At every lap, doing about 160~170km/h in a straight section with several micro bumps, I remember that the eyes were shaken so badly that the whole vision was blurred. Glad it was on a straight! So, when you're driving race cars that have rigid suspension and no cushion under your butt, you *can* experience exactly what I'm seeing in rF2 in Spa66 with F1, for instance. That being said, I agree that something must be made about the head shaking. I've lowered mine through config, but I think the proposal at the first post seems very interesting. Cheers.
If this document http://rfactor.net/web/dl/rf1/rFactorInternalsPlugin.pdf is still valid for rFactor2, then I guess I could start coding a plugin to move the camera like I want, tonight
I'll say this again: Gs or gravitational forces do NOT equate to head bobble in real life terms. Can we PLEASE understand that for the hundredth time. I've experienced plenty of g-forces on track and as a flight test mechanic. In either case your head does not "bobble" all over the place. Please get someone to take you out on a race track sometime to experience it for yourselves. There is no wild shaking up and down. There is a resonance and strain on your neck and lower extremities on the car side of things and in the case of extreme G during flight testing, it feels like somebody put a 100 lb weight on your head. You become very aware of the blood flowing through your veins and you find yourself blinking a lot just to clear your vision. It also feels like somebody is pulling your skin downward. It's very weird the first time you experience it.
Saabjock, what is you point about my plug? What do you think about it. I get my ass plenty time on tracks, So I think I got quite experience from Karting to sedan race cars, and motorbike to know what I feel/see on a racetrack. Cheers,
its true. Using rfactor with the default setting is.... awful. You cant see anything lol. Like it was said before, what it should move is the cockpit, not the horizon. If i shake my head, the track is there still.
Your observations are very accurate with regard to that first post. It should be read by ALL the sim developers. I'm starting to wonder if it's just a limitation in software coding that's causing almost all the developers to get this wrong. As you stated earlier, the inner ear in combination with the brain and optic nerve 'dampens' out those pulses. You'd have to be driving on a 'heavily-lined' cobblestone track to get anywhere near the frequency I'm seeing with most sims. In that case the inner ear and brain would not have time to adequately interpret the information it was receiving.
