Fixed Oreca 07 [brakes, engine wear]

Denis Eshchenko

Denis Eshchenko

Registered
Hello everyone!

Firstly, I'm an amateur modder, and just suggest my changes. You may or may not use it. You decide for yourself. Made exclusively for testing purposes, but I will be glad if some endurance leagues take advantage of this.

You all know about the recent race in VEC. You all know about the problem with engine wear on Oreca 07 (and not only the lmp 2 car). I have investigated and here is my opinion on the situation.

In the previous topic, it was rightly indicated that excessive engine wear does not come from quick downshifts, but from long upshifts. According to the experience of rfactor 1 mods, engine wear began after the rpm limit. In the case of Oreca 07, this should be after 9000. As the developers said, the engine resource is 50 hours. This is really a lot, and with ordinary demotions, such a resource cannot be exhausted. Hence, it is logical to assume that wear begins much earlier. Before that, there were almost no problems, because there were red flags and engine wear was reset. I've seen problems like this in Daytona and .. possibly other tracks, but very rarely. Most often at Le Mans. Why there? Because there are many long straight lines and the engine stays at the high RPM where it starts to wears out more.

My decision.
I found out that through the tuning file (where the car's air packages are registered), you can also fix the physics of the car.

I decided to make a few changes through the upgrade.ini file for Oreca 07. I took the 9000 rpm limit as a basis and limited the engine wear on it. Also removed the random wear by setting LifetimeVar to 0. Of course, I haven't been able to complete the 24h race distance yet to test it live, but the AIs I launched last night were able to drive the entire distance without breakdowns.

Also corrected the section in LeMan aeropackage:
HDV = [ENGINE]
HDV = GeneralTorqueMult = 1.0
HDV = GeneralPowerMult = 1.0

All packages had 0.88, here 1.0. As far as I know, this could also a lot on engine wear, in addition to previous engine problems. Lap times have not changed significantly. It became slower, but about 0.5 sec in Le-Man.

Also fixed braking problem on Oreca 07. Everyone always used 60:40 brake balance but still spin on braking. Why? I’m sure the problem is in the brake torque. It is much stronger at the back. I changed on equal torque for four wheels. Now the balance of the brakes can be changed depending on your preference. I'm using 56:44 now. Locking up rears and spinning are gone. The car is very good on braking!

And the last thing I changed was the loss downforce in slipstream. This is not a big problem compared to the others. I changed it, because in real Le Mans, lmp2 often follow each other in wheel to wheel battles. In rfactor 2 there are problems with this, especially in braking and in high-speed corners.

List of changes:
Motor wear
Brake torque
Power and torque multiplier
Fixed DraftLiftMult

These changes have been applied to all air packages.

Download link:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1j_gaapOy9efUz1qcJQgKWsk_iNnDGjPL/view?usp=sharing

How installed:
copy in directory rFactor 2/Packages and just installed how anything rfcmp mod.
upload_2021-6-8_16-22-53.png


You can found car in Oreca list, bottom:
upload_2021-6-8_16-21-53.png


It's not must conflicted with original cars or anothers skinpacks, because is a different version.
Enjoy! :)

P.S. In conclusion, I would like to say that hopefully this topic will give Studio-397 a reason to finally get into the physics of their cars. Of course, graphics are important, but who will drive them if their cars are broken. After all, this should be done by developers, not amateur modders.
 
As this is in car modding, and you've labelled yourself an amateur, I feel welcome to make a couple of corrections (as a fellow amateur):

Denis Eshchenko said:
In the previous topic, it was rightly indicated that excessive engine wear does not come from quick downshifts, but from long upshifts.
Click to expand...

Probably a bit of both, but sure - over a very long period, a handful of aggressive downshifts probably aren't causing too much damage.

According to the experience of rfactor 1 mods, engine wear began after the rpm limit.
Click to expand...

Very mod dependent. Generally I found mods that were less strict about overrevs started the wear a bit earlier, and it grows slower. F1 mods often had very little under redline, and overrevving on downshifts would cause a lot of damage.

As the developers said, the engine resource is 50 hours. This is really a lot, and with ordinary demotions, such a resource cannot be exhausted.
Click to expand...

The only time you're using 1s of wear each second, is when you're sitting on the damage threshold (oil) temperature and the damage threshold RPM. At all other times you're generating less or more wear, and often to a large extent. You can make an engine that will last a 24 hour race with a listed lifetime of 2000s or 200000s, depending how you set up the damage.

Also corrected the section in LeMan aeropackage:
HDV = [ENGINE]
HDV = GeneralTorqueMult = 1.0
HDV = GeneralPowerMult = 1.0

All packages had 0.88, here 1.0. As far as I know, this could also a lot on engine wear, in addition to previous engine problems.
Click to expand...

Damage is determined purely by the damage parameters relating to (oil) temperature and RPM. The torque/power the engine produces, the turbo present, the fuel consumption, the heat generated per fuel consumption, all have no direct effect.


If this car has a noticeably different working lifetime to the other cars, then fair enough. As long as it's more than someone saying "my engine broke, so something's wrong" without checking how they're running the car and in comparison to other similar cars.


For testing engine wear, rather than run an entire 24 hours, you can set time acceleration and then mechanical failures to be time scaled. Then you can set time to, say, 24x, and an hour is roughly equivalent to running 24 hours. You do need to be a little careful about how you test it (pitstops that heat up the engine are like 24 pitstops heating up the engine, and 24 outlaps with the engine slowly cooling back down, for example), take any warmup you do into account (perhaps add a lap) and add a bit of wiggle room by making the engine consistently last 1h10min instead of the 1h exactly.

Tip: if doing this, deliberately kill the engine quickly the first time, to confirm everything is set right. On a few occasions I got 20 mins into a 15 min test and realised I'd managed to turn mechanical failures off, or some such...

For a car in devmode you can bring up the engine lifetime live, makes it even easier.

*Forgot regarding the testing: test the engine in race sessions if there's any random variance set. I got a LOT less variation in race sessions compared to practice. I would assume 0 variance will cancel that; I'd probably test in a race session anyway, just to make sure.

Also on long shifts vs downshifts - obviously downshifts can hit higher RPM, so each can have a much bigger effect on damage.
 
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Hi guys.
I necro this, because I have an overheating problem and this post got lot of infos.
I'm messing around with the Alfa Romeo 155 V6 DTM available in the workshop and the car physics and specs are far from the real thing.
The car mod revs up to about 7250rpm, while the real car revs up to 12000rpm. So I created a new engine file and the gear ratios for it, using the rfactor 2 online tools and taking as reference the power/torque numbers and the tires/rims specs. The final result seems close enough to the real car. I tested it, but after a lap the engine starts to overheat (the UI shows what I think is the oil/water warning icon) and after 1 or 2 laps the engine dies.

These are the same settings posted by McFlex, but with the explanation:
LifetimeEngineRPM=(6200, 250) // (base engine speed for lifetime, range where lifetime is halved)
LifetimeOilTemp=(109.5, 4.1) // (base oil temp for lifetime, range where lifetime is halved)
LifetimeAvg=14000 // average lifetime in seconds
LifetimeVar=4650 // lifetime random variance

Giving a 11500-12000rpm engine, what values should I use to make the engine safe, but still realistic (I'm not looking for the God mod).
Also, do you guys know a GUI that shows the oil temp and the exact rpm in numbers?
I copied in the hdv file the radiator values of the Nissan GT-R GT500 from S397, but this thread shows clearly that there are more settings to adjust.
 
gianluca said:
Hi guys.
I necro this, because I have an overheating problem and this post got lot of infos.
I'm messing around with the Alfa Romeo 155 V6 DTM available in the workshop and the car physics and specs are far from the real thing.
The car mod revs up to about 7250rpm, while the real car revs up to 12000rpm. So I created a new engine file and the gear ratios for it, using the rfactor 2 online tools and taking as reference the power/torque numbers and the tires/rims specs. The final result seems close enough to the real car. I tested it, but after a lap the engine starts to overheat (the UI shows what I think is the oil/water warning icon) and after 1 or 2 laps the engine dies.

These are the same settings posted by McFlex, but with the explanation:
LifetimeEngineRPM=(6200, 250) // (base engine speed for lifetime, range where lifetime is halved)
LifetimeOilTemp=(109.5, 4.1) // (base oil temp for lifetime, range where lifetime is halved)
LifetimeAvg=14000 // average lifetime in seconds
LifetimeVar=4650 // lifetime random variance

Giving a 11500-12000rpm engine, what values should I use to make the engine safe, but still realistic (I'm not looking for the God mod).
Also, do you guys know a GUI that shows the oil temp and the exact rpm in numbers?
I copied in the hdv file the radiator values of the Nissan GT-R GT500 from S397, but this thread shows clearly that there are more settings to adjust.
Click to expand...

As a start, if the engine was revving to 7250 and it had the lifetime RPM base at 6200, that's a gap of 1050 RPM between the two. So if you've raised the engine to 12000, make the lifetime RPM base 10950.

For temperature, you need to decide what constitutes reasonable load for your engine that the cooling can cope with. Running around in the original mod may help you make a decision there (sometimes running flat-out in a lower gear can give you a baseline; ie 3rd gear top speed might just start overheating (after a minute or two) and that might be a good target for your new config. Then in your engine file change the combustion heat parameter until you get the result you're after.

Oh, before you do that though, check the fuel consumption and adjust in the engine ini if necessary. Heat will be dependent on that too.


For testing use devmode and bring up in the info available live in there (Ctrl-D once or twice, I think Ctrl-K or something (you'll see it mentioned on screen somewhere when you cycle through). Motec or other logging can be useful sometimes for analysis but you can ballpark it in real time - plus the game will show you the current engine lifetime, that can help enormously with setting base lifetime values.

*A test track is also useful, there are a couple floating around the place. A very long straight or oval is handy for temperature limit testing
 
@Lazza Thanks for the answer. Those values are from the skipbarber dev mode car. If I want to know what the settings of the various .ini files do, I have to look at the skipbarber files, because the modders apparently like to delete the explanations.
Anyway, looks like I need to check several values, will take some hours. Maybe going for the god mode wasn't a bad idea, could save lot of hassle. :D
 
gianluca said:
Hi guys.
I necro this, because I have an overheating problem and this post got lot of infos.
I'm messing around with the Alfa Romeo 155 V6 DTM available in the workshop and the car physics and specs are far from the real thing.
The car mod revs up to about 7250rpm, while the real car revs up to 12000rpm. So I created a new engine file and the gear ratios for it, using the rfactor 2 online tools and taking as reference the power/torque numbers and the tires/rims specs. The final result seems close enough to the real car. I tested it, but after a lap the engine starts to overheat (the UI shows what I think is the oil/water warning icon) and after 1 or 2 laps the engine dies.

These are the same settings posted by McFlex, but with the explanation:
LifetimeEngineRPM=(6200, 250) // (base engine speed for lifetime, range where lifetime is halved)
LifetimeOilTemp=(109.5, 4.1) // (base oil temp for lifetime, range where lifetime is halved)
LifetimeAvg=14000 // average lifetime in seconds
LifetimeVar=4650 // lifetime random variance

Giving a 11500-12000rpm engine, what values should I use to make the engine safe, but still realistic (I'm not looking for the God mod).
Also, do you guys know a GUI that shows the oil temp and the exact rpm in numbers?
I copied in the hdv file the radiator values of the Nissan GT-R GT500 from S397, but this thread shows clearly that there are more settings to adjust.
Click to expand...

I noticed the wrong physics parameters of this car too, looks like they copy paste from the RS01, it will be nice if you fix this thing!!
 
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Looking in the skipbarber engine and hdv files I've noticed that there is an oil radiator. I put this in the 155 too, but I need to give it some settings and activate its fan. :)

So far what I've done seems ok on track: tested in Donington national with the short gear ratios (top speed 195kph in 6th gear).

RevLimitRange=(11500,0,1) (increased this to pretty much the same max revs of the car)
OptimumOilTemp=99.0 (taken from skipbarber and increased from 98 to 99)
OilTemps=(0.5,107)
CombustionHeat=20.1 (reduced this from 24.something)
EngineSpeedHeat=1.57e-03
OilMinimumCooling=7.0e-3
OilWaterHeatTransfer=(0.014, 8.1e-5)
WaterMinimumCooling=4.5e-3
RadiatorCooling=(4.0e-6, 8.0e-5)
engineHeatTransferParams=(1.0,0.0) // Amount of heat that goes into oil and amount of heat that goes into water
OilRadiatorCooling=(0.00047,0.00019) // Cooling rate of oil radiator (base, per setting)
WaterRadiatorCooling=(0.00047,0.00019) // Cooling rate of water radiator (base, per setting)
WaterThermostat=1 // Defines if thermostat is available
thermostatClosedOpenTemps=(85.0,95.0) // Defines the lower and upper threshold in which the thermostat opens (value when fully closed, value when fully open)
waterCoolingFanThresholdCelcius=100.0 // Defines the threshold where the water cooling fan starts to engage
waterCoolingFanBaseAirVelocityMS=0.0 // Defines the amount of velocity added from the fan to the water radiator when engaged
oilCoolingFanThresholdCelcius=115.0 // Defines the threshold where the oil cooling fan starts to engage
oilCoolingFanBaseAirVelocityMS=0.0 // Defines the amount of velocity added from the fan to the oil radiator when engaged
LifetimeEngineRPM=(11000,290) (increased this from +8000,294)
LifetimeOilTemp=(115,5.5) (I think I have slightly increased it)
LifeTimeAVG=25000 (from 24000)
LifetimeVar=5000 (from 3000)

The rest of the lines come from the skipbarber untouched.
Of course these are safe values, but to be honest I don't have nor the time nor the mood to spend hours in fixing someone else mod. The thing doesn't even have the windscren. Wtf.
I've added the tires taken from 2018_cpm_v2_tires and adjusted in 255x65x18 tires, and adjusted the radius, rim and width numbers of the tbc.
I have calculated the gears on these tires size, but I'm thinking to make them 245x65x18 (the size of the ones used for hill climbs), because a couple of days ago I made the gear rations on this size and I remember them to be better.
Anyway, the short gears should be ok for hill climbs, slalom and karting tracks. :)
I'll keep the testing. The handling is clearly a mess, because the mod base car is a different animal from the 155.
What do you guys think is the official s397 or ISI car that resembles the 155 in terms of suspensions, components displacement, weight distribution and suspensions type?

 
gianluca said:
What do you guys think is the official s397 or ISI car that resembles the 155 in terms of suspensions, components displacement, weight distribution and suspensions type?
Click to expand...
I doubt that a DTM from 1993, V6/2.500cc/420bhp/1.100kg has anything to do with a LMP2 from 2017, V8/4.200cc/600bhp/930kg.
 
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