FIA Formula Two Williams JPH1B Released

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 88mphTim, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. K Szczech

    K Szczech Registered

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    Thanks.

    It's just that if Luciano tested it and didn't notice something so obvious, then either it's supposed to be like this, or some bug appeared between Luciano's testing and release to public. Or maybe he tested it with hardware acting completely different than our "G25's and G27's".

    Camber is low, but it's still negative. Yet something is pulling steering wheel towards inside in slow corners.

    Having it neither fixed, nor confirmed to be proper behavior, doesn't look good. Kinda like lack of interest from your side, if what you released actually simulates real car's behavior. That's why I think it's important (especially for you guys), to get this straightened up.
     
  2. JvM

    JvM Registered

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    Having been away from rF2 for a good while, only tried this car y'day for the 1st time. Really cool to drive, apart from some weird feeling stuff, related to above I guess. :) Is it really a G-wheel issue, not happening on other wheels?`

    I feel its not pulling to the inside that much, but more or less staying in the same position (limb), after the fronts start scrubbing and you go over that 'treshold'

    Probably they are, but just in case :D , are the caster and/or mechanical trail values for this car correct for sure? Something seriously off in those could cause something like this maybe.
     
  3. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Well they use very very little caster, maybe that combined with the fact that most ppl play with way too little ffb means there is not enough steering resistance at those times, and that then causes the limp/pulling to the inside ffb issues?

    I'm just guessing because I've noticed most people play with super light ffb values (youtube videos look like they could steer with 2 fingers, or as if the ffb motors are just entirely turned off), while Luciano didn't look to have these issues at all in the videos of him testing.

    Also, don't forget that ISI said that there were somethings that they weren't happy with yet regarding the F2 physics. When I asked them if these physics improvements were still coming despite the real life F2 series shutting down, they said that they were still committed to making the in-game F2 as realistic as possible. So the car's physics still aren't officially completed.
     
  4. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    Light FFB would make that effect lighter, too. There is clearly something wrong with the caster/mechanical trail, that negative aligning torque clearly shows that most of the forces comes from the tire and very little from the suspension.
     
  5. CordellCahill

    CordellCahill Registered

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    Why?
     
  6. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Maybe, but maybe not. That may be generalizing and over simplifying what is happening with the ffb. Or you may be correct :)
     
  7. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    I'm going to copy+paste a post from iRacing forums about FFB/mechanical trail/pneumatic trail/caster etc, it's pretty well explained by Jeremy Spiering:

    And pay attention especially here:

    Which is something pretty similar to what happens in the F2, or at least it did when it was released. You can also test this even in rF with realfeel, make a suspension with no caster / mech trail and see what happens :)
     
  8. CordellCahill

    CordellCahill Registered

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    You didn't answer the question. Your statement was that the mechanical trail is wrong. Why is it wrong? Your iRacing qoute is only proof that it is physically possible for the self aligning torque to go negative....it happens with some cars and some setups, that doesn't make it wrong.
     
  9. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    It is wrong because it is either too low, or the pneumatic trail insanely high in this car.

    If the mod hadn't encrypted files, we could figure out the SAT with the tire tool :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2013
  10. CordellCahill

    CordellCahill Registered

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    Sigh, you have still given no reason as to why it is wrong.
     
  11. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    Dude, because it has almost 0 resistence past 90º of steering rotation. If you believe this is right ok, I don't believe it. There are also tons of evidences of open wheelers running much higher caster settings, in order or x2-x3 higher.
     
  12. CordellCahill

    CordellCahill Registered

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    DUDE, you should reread your iRacing qoute. You don't seem to understand that what it's saying is that 0 resistance is possible

    I'm not doubting this. Now do you have evidence that their self aligning torque never changes signs?
     
  13. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    I can read perfectly, I know it's possible to have 0 and even negative resistance, I'm just saying that I do not expect such thing in a car like this, I simply don't believe that a Formula Two car has 0 resistance.

    No I dont have evidence, and I wouldn't be surprised if the SAT changes signs as there are graphs showing this around the Internet, but the SAT is only part of the picture, not all. They are the aligning forces coming only from the tire, measured in a tire machine without any suspension.
     
  14. BlaringFiddle5

    BlaringFiddle5 Registered

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    SAT = Scholastic Aptitude Test ?
     
  15. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    Hehe. Self Aligning Torque.
     
  16. CordellCahill

    CordellCahill Registered

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    This is why you need to reread your iRacing qoute. Self aligning torque is the SUM of the forces coming from pnuematic AND mechnical trail. Now put that together with whatelse you said

    You've said it yourself, resistance(SAT, the sum of mechnical and pnuematic trail) can be equal to 0 or be negative.
     
  17. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    Well the real life f2 runs an insanely low amount of caster supposedly. So maybe what was described in the iracing article is what's happening with the F2 (whenever the f2's front tyres steer sharply enough and/or have enough slip angle) therefore making this how it's supposed to be??

    Also, most people use way too little ffb, and therefore when the resistance lowers it's going to really be limp and dead because you already don't even use much ffb resistance normally, nevermind when it lessens.

    Just speculating, I don't really know much about pneumatic trail, suspension geometries, steering columns, etc
     
  18. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    The aligning torque comes from the tires, the sum of both trails gives the steering torque.

    What I meant is that I do expect things like this:

    http://oi19.tinypic.com/4y7l0ys.jpg

    But this comes alone from the tires, without the mechanical trail. What I tried to say is that I hardly believe that the sum of them would give almost 0 resistance in a modern open wheeler like this. I wasn't saying that this effect is impossible to achieve, as it is indeed possible with certain suspension geometries :)
     
  19. Domi

    Domi Registered

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    I don't think it's about little FFB, the FFB forces are scaled anyway.... so they increase/decrease in the same proportion. Anyway I remember having a bit of clipping with that car, so certainly the FFB wasn't low... there is something odd there, but perhaps I am totally wrong and F2 drivers have 0 resistence past certain slip angles :)
     
  20. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I have almost 0 resistance in some road cars when I have understeered badly (not slight understeer, but BAD understeer lol). Not saying F2 is correct, but it certainly can happen on certain cars.

    I also had almost no steering resistance and almost no steering returning to centre one time when my F2000 was setup wrong. That felt horrible, it was like playing a sim with your FFB set to 0, no resistance, no centering forces, no centering spring, nothing. It resulted as a cause of someone messing up something on the front end. Think it was caster, or something on the front suspension that affects steering. This happened my entire run, not just at a certain steering angle or slip angle, but every second. When I would use the curbs on entry the freaking curbs would almost shoot me off the track (they already sucked you in when the steering was normal, but it was even worse with the super dead, light steering I had that session). Totally different situation than the RF2 F2, but just thought I'd share the story with everyone :).
     

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