FIA Formula Two Williams JPH1B Released

samuelw said:
Jim Clark said he started racing merely to see what it was like on a race track with no expectation of becoming world champion. That much I have in common with Jimmy. At 62 with no talent I have no expectation of becoming world champion but I do want to see what its like on a race track. Being poor, a virtual racetrack is the best I can do.

Keep up the good work ISI and make it as real as possible.
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samuelw said:
I am a logitech owner and am content.
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Exactly the same here, cant say it better myself.
 
I'm revising my original opinion from hating this and all rwd cars in RF2. I spent some hours messing with settings and racing at Croft yesterday. Now I have to agree this may well be the best car in RF2. I love it. The thing that I changed that made the biggest difference to me was the camera pitch and seat height. I changed the angle to 5 degrees and lowered the seat to give the more realistic peering over the wheel effect. I catch most slides now, I think because I changed the angle a bit the horizon gives a better visual feedback to loss of traction. I dont know, what I do know is I got to bed at 3AM with sore forcefeedback shoulders. I still feel at low speeds its far too easy to get into an ice dance on the spot and the behaviour on grass is a bit too unpredictable, but thats something I think about all the rwd in Rfactor and I'm guessing its something that will not be changed. Does everyone else have the same behaviour in a stationary vehicle? I have no centering spring enabled, but when I turn the wheel in a stopped car the wheel wants to centre. Thats not right is it?
 
Holy mother of god, just today a parcel turned up with my steering wheel upgrade, went from gtdf logitech, to t500 thrustmaster. The info you get through the wheel is amazing, and the pedals are the mutz nutz. Im blown away. :D
 
F2Chump said:
That's what I get in real cars, why shouldn't I expect it in a sim?
Then I want a realistic/convincing/informative feedback source, and once I've got that, I can then and only then consider the physics, that said, this is all related, and I've said that many times, but unlike you, I start with the finished product and work backwards, I don't accept on paper numbers as anything but mumbo jumbo if the end result is unsatisfactory.
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That is why I created hotrod Kantti car many years ago for rF1, it has some stuff that is calculated by realistic math, but mostly I wanted to create a car that is fun to drive, still beliveable to some extent, one that provides great feedback, but also one that I have freedom to create to feel what I want car to be felt, result is a car that requires you to slide it when going fast, it is easy to spin, but also it has just right amount of power so you can also do opposite lock fun whole day if desired, with realfeel it does countersteer properly etc.

I think that there are place for both, also I think that not all cars should have great steering or ffb as they don't have such in realworld either. For example I had Pontiac Safari once, quarter turn at wheel had minor effect to travelling direction, steering wheel was like it would of not being connected to front wheels, that still had some countersteering when pulling drift, which was ridiculously easy to do with that as it weighted two tons and was longer than anything else (on ice of course, it had not much power), then there was Volvo 240 with power steering, steering wheel was not connected to anything, but somehow by magic car did turn. same experience with Saab 9-5 Aero, except around middle, I could shake wheel 3cm and absolutely nothing was felt inside the car or steering wheel. Best steering feel was in Audi Quattro rally car (despite it being awd, but it had quick manual steering, pain at slow speed grippy surface), great fun doing 4 wheel drifts and very easy too, well if you could keep power on, turbo had some serious lag.

One can't say single truth from real world cars, or maybe those swedish things are more of tractors, except Valmet 702, 805, 9000(this one has no turning wheels, whole machine is split and it turns whole front/back end) and some more modern ones that can't even remember had more precision with as little feel in steering than Saab 9-5. To be noted is that many tractors don't have direct wheel to steering connection, there is hydraulic piston that turns wheels. Car really can have such poor steering feel too.

Steering itself is always compromise of things, I can understand why Formula 2 could have very little steering feel at low speed, as car is so rear heavy and high grip, it will be very very snappy, thus driver probably need to predict a bit of that snappy characteristics to be able to keep it under control, also at higher speed enough large countersteering force for low speed situations would become major burden, so they probably have set it to have low feedback at slow speed so that driver can turn wheel faster to be able to keep it under control even sliding a bit.

What comes to higher speed sliding, reduce wings, especially rear or it will just have not enough power to slide, 3rd & 4th gear corners at default wings, I can do whatever I like with throttle pedal and it will not slide, just understeer more or less.
 
Murtaya said:
Does everyone else have the same behaviour in a stationary vehicle? I have no centering spring enabled, but when I turn the wheel in a stopped car the wheel wants to centre. Thats not right is it?
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I'm not noticing this. Have you edited contoller.ini? Steering torque zero-speed mult and possibly extrapolation settings may have something do with it.
 
baked bean said:
Holy mother of god, just today a parcel turned up with my steering wheel upgrade, went from gtdf logitech, to t500 thrustmaster. The info you get through the wheel is amazing, and the pedals are the mutz nutz. Im blown away. :D
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Very nice bb... delighted for you mate. Hopefully I`ll be upgrading the wheel sometime too, got to upgrade the pc first though.

Enjoy your new hardware. :)
 
Just put your profiler/windows game controller thing at 900°, check vehicle set in the settings of rF2 and you will always have the correct rotation... Unless you alt tab or rF2 is being annoying :P

And Im uploading a vid of a sort of quick lap on PBR, I think it was a 1.04.4 but the track was still pretty green. There's a 4 wheel drift, theres a powerslide out of a corner and all that with a G27, it's a miracle :)
I cropped the 3 screen width a bit to make it a bit more watchable on youtube, I'll post it once its done
 
I had a nice little session and race online earlier this morning to give the F2 another shot. I ended up using a shared setup that had more damping and way less ARB. Camber was also a bit reduced (all compared to default).

Let me sum it up this way: Whoa! It's like it's a different car! The FFB is still a bit "lacking" with communicating what the car does mid-corner (G27), but the way the car behaves is much better. I went from barely being able to squeak into the 1:06s to consistently running low-1:05s. Having a car you can be confident with pays dividends.

For all of the haters: Please, take the time to at least attempt to sort the car out before writing it off. As I mentioned earlier, adding more damping went a long way. Think of it this way: Of course the car will do all sorts of irrational things when you don't have the correct damping to properly "control" the springs.
 
F2Chump said:
Sure do, as this is a consumer sim and a G27 is consumer grade equipment.
If ISI want to exclude G27's and either favour another brand or price point, that's cool, just refund me and you'll never hear from me again.
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So lets get this straight: All your other sims that filter FFB are fine. But in rF2 it's not because you have to do it manually?

So if rF2 detected the G27 automatically and applied the proper filtering, you'd be OK with it?

Because that's what it comes down to:

nKp = filtered FFB
GTR Evo (Race07 series) = filtered FFB
GTR2 = filtered FFB
GTL = filtered FFB
iRacing = filtered FFB
rF1 = filtered FFB
LFS = filtered FFB
pCARS = (wtf FFB?)

rF2 = not filtered FFB (ZOMG IT'S TEH HAXORZ MY G27 MAKES NOISE WAAAAAAA!!!@#)

I owned a G27 so I know the filtering works.

I think you need a new hobby. Sim racing is obviously not for you.
 
I agree the powerslide in that right hander sucked after I saw it myself, but I didn't spin :P And yes, there are also lots of mistakes
 
hiohaa said:
again......already posted videos of me driving to a very competent level.
Already explained what you need to do to achieve those laptimes.

go check out post 348 and 349.
http://isiforums.net/f/showthread.p...s-JPH1B-Released?p=98382&viewfull=1#post98382

again, if you think you can do what that guy does in post 415, at 1.51 - as i've said in my post - fraps it, upload it here, so we can see.
Please, teach me to do it.
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You are really exhausting me with your 'real life videos driving at a competent level!"
I'm sorry but I'm sure you don't have the ability to judge about physics implemented with real data provided and supervised by a real life F2 chief engineer at a very professional level!
You can of course give an opinion like most of the people does here but in each of your post it's like you are right and the others are wrong (especially ISI)!
Who needs to grow up now?
 
krivjur said:
You can have precise (feeling, steering?) physics which are unrealistic. Most arcade games would be just this if they allowed you to set controls and camera/FOV properly. They will likely fail on the FFB though. :) FFB is such a personal preference though that you can't say you need precise or realistic physics to generate something someone may like. There're people who like just a centering spring for example.

Of course the whole term "precise physics" is vague. First, I assume it doesn't equal realistic. Second, all real-time simulators have some inaccuracies. Third, I just think it as almost synonym to "precise steering" which I perceive as very direct response with minimal delay.

TBH, I don't want to argue, but I'm just tired of the "bashing" going on here in general (and I only read here very occasionally since launch).
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Using the term precise, and the term physics both should suggest mathematical results. Precise would have more numbers after the decimal than less precise would have. It has already been said though that there isn't enough computational power in desktop PC's to calculate physics in real time, so they use other methods, which are less precise. For every single vehicle on the road though, or on the track, physics is all over it.

That being said, why would you assume that precise physics doesn't equal realistic? If the math is correct, it will be as real as it could possibly be seeing as real physics are at work in real cars, and everything can be calculated with physics.
 
GTrFreak said:
For **** sake.

Stop spamming and stop screaming for video's.
I think you are a nice guy but you've made your point, ISI has noticed constructive critisism that has been given. We'll see what they come up with. Just enjoy the things rF2 HAS or does correctly already.
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+1
 
Gearjammer said:
Using the term precise, and the term physics both should suggest mathematical results. Precise would have more numbers after the decimal than less precise would have. It has already been said though that there isn't enough computational power in desktop PC's to calculate physics in real time, so they use other methods, which are less precise. For every single vehicle on the road though, or on the track, physics is all over it.

That being said, why would you assume that precise physics doesn't equal realistic? If the math is correct, it will be as real as it could possibly be seeing as real physics are at work in real cars, and everything can be calculated with physics.
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Even if the math calculation results are precise / accurate, it doesn't mean the model itself is correct. I highly doubt we would see perfect simulation of a racing tire if we were just magically given a higher processing power. Even professional F1 sims aren't at that level and need constant tweaking to the model. More processing power does give you more liberties on your approach and could lead into better end product though.

MJP said:
It appears to be 540°
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Thanks, will give it a shot once my wheel gets repaired.
 
hiohaa said:
I really do think a lot of you who are saying the physics and FFB are perfect aren't fast enough in the game and so cant comprehend what we are talking about in terms of 'on the limit'
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You certainly drive better than the average? Maybe you are the new greger huttu?
Pathetic!...
 
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