FFB settings with the AF responsive mode. Would like some feedback.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Paul Loatman, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    If we are talking about the same STS function (though i believe there is only one), you shouldn't be. Steering Torque Sensitivity as the name suggests is to do with torque. Also, TechAde confirmed some months back with test data that STS functions as described....by affecting the ffb signal before being sent to your ffb wheel. It shouldn't have any influence on the steering wheel or front wheel lock.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2015
  2. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    ooh, interesting. Look forward to the vids Paul.
     
  3. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    I tried two STS settings 0, and 2. You are right. Sorry my false initial impression on effect of delta steering ratio.


    Like to see your race videos... Also can you make a video to show the "ridiculous behavior with the default STS with no friction/dampening/inertia. Berney Villers has said you have to use these settings to avoid oscillations in almost any game."?

    I may be not at same level as yours on this subject. I felt the wheel "fine". No such "ridiculous behavior". I did a quick video to show.... straight acce 0 - 100 mph hand off, no spin or oscillation and “loose”, etc... I went way above that speed, it just fine.

     
  4. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    My video was with default mode. I did try both Responsive and Responsive (Peak allowed) modes too. They are fine, just like the video shown. I tried the F3.5 car too, a little oscillation, not like yours.


    I used rF2 default controller.json file with only changes of: STC=13, FFB multiplier=1, and min torque=0
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2015
  5. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    Interesting vids and analysis Paul. Thanks for sharing.
     
  6. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    By reducing the Steering torque sensitivity, you get pretty low range of torque in the small steering angle variation range (low sensitive). Hence adding AF “background” (set AF resistance, damping torque) effectively overcomes an oscillation.
    This is what I learn from your video. Trade off this approach is that those constant backgrounds you added from AF will blunt the details of FFB, especially on low torque level details, which makes your wheel lifeless. Your video clearly shows such outcome.

    Have you tried to use AF Dynamic Oscillation control, instead? Those setting seems make more sense to me. It applies only when oscillation occurs:
    a) Dynamic Oscillation control – stationary, which applies only on a Car not moving. This may take care of your oscillation at garage or after spin-off, as shown in your video.
    b) Dynamic Oscillation control – moving, which may take care of high speed straight line oscillation you have seen.


    Anyhow, if you do like use the AF resistance, damping, etc such effects, I will suggest using in-game effect.

    Force
    Spring
    Resistance
    Damp
    Inertia

    are USB standard HID effect reports. Game developer shall output those reports per standard. However, rF2 may not, although in the Controller.json file indicates so.
    Wheel vendors shall use those in-game effects first. If not, then they simulate them own.

    Sim-X AF will adapt in-game effects if the game outputs. In your Accuforce menu, add an effect by select the “Game FFB Effect”. Once you add this effect, then open the setting, it will show you all four effects: resistance, damp, inertia, spring.
    Slide all them to 100%, which mean use 100% of those in-game.
     
  7. Spinelli

    Spinelli Banned

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    I agree, from Paul's videos as-well as my own RF2 experience (plus my limited amount of real-life experience), that Paul's way of FFB settings seems to result in a more realistic, and not so "digital", fake, snappy, sharp, etc., FFB experience for the user.

    If STS @ 1.000 is fully linear FFB torque output, and if the vast majority of FFB in the game is physically based, then I guess that points to the physics (or parts of the physics) of the game needing work as we shouldn't have to "hack" the game-to-hardware FFB output linearity/curve.
     
  8. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    Paul: on your video, when you spun off the road (stopped), the wheel oscillates. I got this once a while too. I think this is nothing to do with sim physics.
    It just hits to the limit of wheel rotational angle (I set 900 degree on the wheel). I am not sure if the AF wheel has gear-lock or not.If not, it really depends on the feedback loop on the controller. All DD wheel vendors implemented so-called "Stop damper" to reduce such resonance. If you increase this setting, it may help.
     
  9. Joe

    Joe Registered

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    OK, here is my theory on this. If I observed those behavior correctly.
    the wheel seems oscillate within +/- 1.9 degree, which is the step angle for this motor; and only oscillating at straight line driving when no input (hands off) or at stop (zero speed). If wheeling input > 1.9 degree, you will not have such problem.

    rF2 is about 100Hz HID communication with the wheel. At zero degree of steering (straight line) with no input (hands off), the wheel intends to return to zero position every 10 ms (100Hz). since no input from your hand wheeling, the game reads steering position naturally every 10ms. Now, if your wheel is perfectly centered, then after a few trial, the wheel will be stablized, but if your wheel is not centered, then the wheel will read non-zero angle back and force, hence cause such oscillating. If your wheeling input angle > center offset, then you may not have such problem. This is why you experienced only once a while at such conditions(?). I will suggest you may need to re-center your wheel to see if improve or not.

    (after you added friction/dampp --- background, you basically over ride the threshold of wheel's self-centering abability at low level. thus, you might thought you fix the problem)?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 30, 2015
  10. Z06Trackman

    Z06Trackman Registered

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    Paul, thanks for sharing your work here. My son and I just adopted these settings for the config file and the Accuforce settings. This is by far the most realistic rF2 has felt.
     
  11. DrR1pper

    DrR1pper Registered

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    I really wish i could try an AF wheel and compare how your settings change the feel of the ffb.
     
  12. whitmore

    whitmore Registered

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    I have a new accuforce wheel and am interested in the settings but i do not see any apart from STS values. Were they in the OP that is now blank?
    Those that have turned off all AF settings is that just referring to turning off all added effects?
    Also the video that was in the OP does anyone else have a link?
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017

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